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Grandfather's Bring Back

7K views 47 replies 9 participants last post by  alamo 
#1 ·
Yet another one of these threads. My father gave it to me recently. My grandfather was in WW1 & WWII. He brought this one back from WWII.

It is a DWM. Has a "55" on top. On the forward metal part of the grip it says "A.M. XIII.5.22."

"47" on top of the extractor. "47" on the locking bolt. a cursive "W" on the underside back end of the trigger guard. "82" behind the rear sight. Eagle w/ upraised wings on the left side of the barrel. "Gesichert" behind the safety.

Beneath the underside back end of the barrel, there is "847" and below it looks like a cursive "a". Same "847" & "a" on the forward part of the frame, just under the barrel.

3 proof marks together on the left side of the receiver -

1) eagle w/ upraised wings
2) what appears to be a Erfurt proof mark (maybe the first one on #18 on the link below or the first one on #16)
3) a DWM proof mark - looks like the 2nd & 3rd ones on # 15 on the link.

I found the proof marks on http://www.lugerforum.com , the "Proof 2" section under "Technical Information" & then the "Markings" link.

An "RC" proof mark, just forward of the rear site.

Slide doesn't lock open.

Magazine - near the bottom of the mag - eagle, "FXO" and "P08".

I don't have any illusions about this having any particular value but was curious to know the following:

1) Anything of particular interest about it?
2) Approx. date of manufacture.
3) Any ideas on "A.M. XIII.5.22."

Thanks in advance!
 
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#28 ·
I have used paint remover (very rough on wood), dawn or the like and murphys. I like Murphys, but have used Rons method many times.


Ensure you DO NOT dry the wood fast, let it dry overnight on the counter or other safe place, and then apply tung oil or linseed.

You may want to clean them, let them dry and clean again. That deep oil can taker a bit to get out.

Ed
 
#30 ·
Have done close to a full disassembly - posted details on the "New Collector's Forum".

Parts aren't overly mismatched. No hold open latch as expected.

Here's the part #s / parts:

47 - extractor
47 - receiver
47 - locking bolt
47 - slide plate
47 - trigger
47 - extractor
47 - firing pin

55 - breech lock
55 - fwd toggle link
82 - rear toggle link

The main serial number on the underside back end of the barrel and forward part of the receiver is "847" with a cursive "a" below the 847. on each. I assume the "47" on most of the other parts indicates it goes with "847" ??

Interestingly, the extractor had the word "GELADEN" on it. Anyone seen this before? Is it a subcontractor name?
 
#31 ·
Tom,
No, GELADEN is German for LOADED. It's the loaded chamber indicator. This will be visable when a round is chambered. Indicating that there is cartridge in the chamber. A safety warning on all P.08s. A few made for the American market will say "LOADED". Highly desirable and will add a considerable premium. The saftey will also say "SAFE" instead of "GESCHERT".
Ron
 
#33 ·
I examined the proof marks more closely tonight with a manifying glass. Contrary to what I originally posted, I'm pretty certain now they match the 3 proof marks on the Luger Forum website under "Proof 2" - #13 - which is the ones for 1908 military examples with chamber dates. However, mine does not have a date on it. Left to right, the proofs are the eagle, the "harp"-like thing, and the sort of "3" under the crown.

I looked at #12 on "Proof 1" (1908 military examples without chamber dates) and the only thing that matches is the eagle.

From pictures I've seen, if there was a date, it would be forward of the extractor. No date there. Is that where it should be? The reference to "chamber date" is confusing to me as I think of the chamber as the opening at the end of the barrel where the round is loaded into. I totally disassembled and examined every part, if there was a date, I surely would have seen it.

A friend has a good digital camera. I'll try to post pictures next week.
 
#34 ·
Your Luger has been correctly identified as a 1908 First Issue. The proof marks shown on the LugerForum are just a small sub-set of possible markings. The "Proof 2 - #13" is for the dated 1908 pattern Lugers with the proof marks on the RIGHT side of the receiver. The description you have provided of the proof marks on the LEFT side of the receiver are correct for a 1908 First Issue. You are correct that a date would be located in front of the extractor on TOP of the chamber . Your Luger should not have a date, never had a date, you do not need to continue to look for one. You have a nice early military Luger, albeit mismatched.
 
#38 ·
After all these years after posting this message, I finally have pictures of it. It's a first issue, unit marked, no hold open, serial number 847a. And it has the mysterious "W" on the base of the trigger guard - visible in one of the pictures.
 

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#41 ·
According to Jan's original post from above link, the "W" is also found on other lugers, specifically a Bavarian regiment-
so it is likely not for "Wuerttemburg". JMHO.
 
#42 ·
Hi Tom,
To keep it simple, here goes: Imperial Germany was comprised of several different Kingdom's and Principalities and each had their own distinctive insignia, at least until 1914 when they went to war as one united army. During 1913 it was decided to equip all newly made P08's with the hold-open and to retro-fit the older guns with this feature. When War broke out in Aug 2014 the armies of Bavaria, Württemberg and Saxony had still not had their guns modified. One theory is that the W stands for Württemberg.
Norm
 
#46 ·
I posted pictures of the Luger the other day, here is the magazine, bring back papers and holster.

I don't think it's the original magazine. It has a "37" on it and most the other parts are "47". The early Luger mags I've seen pictures of here seem to have a wooden piece at the base which this one does not.

The bring back papers were signed by my grandfather so no name is filled in.

I have no idea about the holster, no markings of any kind on it and it's not a Luger holster. It may have been a holster he picked up somewhere in Germany just to keep in it. Or it could be the holster the pistol came in from wherever he got it.
 

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#47 ·
Hello Tom,
I have enjoyed your posts and the learned replies regarding your Luger. Since nobody has replied to your last one, I thought I'd chime in. I'm not nearly the expert that these other members are, but do know a bit.
You are correct in that your mag is not original but is a WW2 mag. I had them in my Mauser BYF42 ( BYF being the WW2 code for Mauser, 42 it's year of mfg) WW2 Luger. All manufacturers then (WW2) had a letter code ID. Your mag mfg code is the FXO on the left side. The eagle and number 37 below being an acceptance Mkg.
So you can research that I'm sure on the forum under Third Reich Lugers. Originally your Luger's mag would have the wood bottom as you thought, with serial numbers in larger numerals, lengthwise on the base not across as on WW1 but later mags Ca. 1911-12.
The holster being a shoulder holster, not a Luger holster is right. But obviously WW2 or earlier.
So, you have pretty much got the lowdown on your piece. Definitely a keeper
Referring to your first post in this thread, about it's value, it is obviously of great historical and intrinsic family value being your grandfathers bring back. So, like I have done, searching for anything on 1910's (my current Luger) this forum is a gold mine of info. Lot of learned folks here as you no doubt know.
Best, Bill
 
#48 · (Edited)
Thanks so much for your comments Bill. The magazine was the only part I didn't know anything about. I think I've got close to everything to know about this Luger. I'm fortunate my grandfather picked up a first issue, unit-marked Luger with the "W" on the trigger guard to boot. He died in his early 60s of a heart attack, I never knew him. He was in WWI and WWII, he got the Luger in WWII. My Dad didn't know anything about where / how he got it. I'm now researching the Samurai sword my Dad brought back from the Pacific. Not nearly as much to go on with those of course. I'll probably need an expert to tell me anything about it.
 
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