[ssilver]

The SN#9911 w/ an i under the SN. Crown over the N on barrel. DWM on top of the barrel w/ no other markings. Germany printed under the SN of the frame in front of the trigger. 3" barrel. Magazine has wood base but no numbers. Has 22 painted on top in front of the rear sight. Numbers match on all parts except: the first piece you take off to remove the barrel has a 4 on the inside and 11 on the bottum side. Has GESICHERT under saftey.

This was my pistol was handed down from my dad, his dad had bought it many years ago.

Any input would be apprciated.

Sean

 

[Doubs]

Sean, you've described a "1920 commercial" or "Alphabet Luger", made in the 1920's for export to an English-speaking country. That's why the "GERMANY" stamp on the frame. If you look under the take-down lever you should also see the number "11" there too..... the last two digits of the serial number. "11" will also be on the very rear of your toggle train behind the rear sight. This is the most common Luger made but is still desireable. Measure your barrel by inserting a pencil (eraser first) into the bore and allow it to seat against the face of the breech with the action closed and UNLOADED! Mark the pencil at the muzzle and then measure it once you've taken it out. That's your barrel length..... probably 3 7/8 inches or 3 5/8 inches. Most were 98mm or 3 7/8 inches judging from my observations. The 7.65mm Lugers are a pleasure to shoot and very accurate. Having come down from your grandfather to your father and now you, it's a family heirloom so treat it well.

 

[ssilver]

Thanks Doubs,

I just used the pencil test and it does measure 3 7/8". I removed the grips and am cleaning them with Murphys Oil soap and plan on finishing them w/ linseed oil. I picked up some "new" old stock ammo and have shot this pistol. Any idea why there would be 22 painted on the top? I plan on passing this pistol down to the next generation but do want to enjoy it in the mean time. Thanks for your input.

Sean

 

[Edward Tinker]

I would guess the "22" is some sort of stocking number?

Can you provide pictures of your Luger? Side, top, etc? You can use a digital camera or scanner?

Ed

 

[ssilver]

Here is my attempt to post pictures. What mega pixel and setting are others using? These pictures look much better when I view them w/ FINEPIX the software that came with the cam. Included is a holster that came with the pistol. How do you determine how much original blue is on the pistol?


Download Attachment: holster.JPG
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Download Attachment: inside.JPG
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Download Attachment: pistol.JPG
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[ssilver]

Here is a few more pictures, I can get more detailed ones if someone wanted a diffrent view.

Sean

Download Attachment: magazine.JPG
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Download Attachment: rear1.JPG
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Download Attachment: rear.JPG
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Download Attachment: top.JPG
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Download Attachment: trigger.JPG
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[ssilver]

I can provide better pictures of the Holster its one I have not seen on any of the pages, it fits the pistol well so it appears to be a match. Any tips on re-installing the grips? The top edge is very thin and I do not want to damage them when I re-install.

Thanks,

Sean

 

[holster_collector]

Hi,
I have no idea what the "22" means. The holster is a commercial style common in the US. Most holsters you see discussed here are military style so that is why you haven't seen yours discussed. There may be stampings or button markings that tell us who made the holster. Look for them.

To protect the grip panels, try replacing them with some new-made copy grip panels for shooting use. They are available for less than $30 and will ensure that the hand fitted original grip panels do not get chipped or broken when the luger is fired. The right side has a very very thin rib on the back that breaks when the luger is shot (once it wears and wiggles a bit then it is prone to splitting off the rib and these are 80 year old panels). The left side panel tends to chip around the safety lever.

The percent of finish seems to be based on tradition. If there is only a tiny moon-crescent of finish wear at the muzzle, then it is probably 98%. If there is a triangle of wear on the muzzle band but no finish worn through on the barrel, then it is probably 95% or higher than 95%. If it has some wear-through on the left side of the barrel it is down to 95% or less than 95%. If there is lots of wear on the front or rear grip strap, then it is approaching 90%. Those are just some of the rules I apply.

Congratulations on your luger.

Dave

 

[Ron Wood]

Your holster is a HH Heiser commercial holster, probably dating from the 1920s-30s and made in Colorado. Heiser holsters from this era are quite collectable and valuable. I am no authority, but if the holster is in good overall condition, I would guess it is worth $200 or so.

 

[Pete E.]

Hello Sean,

Might your HH Heiser holster have a number embossed on its back. Maybe a "721"...?

A similar holster is shown in E-Bender's large book about luger holsters, on page 568.

 

[ssilver]

As luck would have it Im at work and my lugar/holster at home. I will check out the holster more closely when I get home and let you know. You guys have me thinking about those grips now. I was looking forward to putting on the linseed oil and getting them back on the gun. Because I do not have any intentions on ever selling the gun I am leaning towards putting them back on the Gun and using them. I just wanted to know is there any trick to putting them back on the pistol? I am thinking they could have swelled slightly making them a bit bigger overall with the Murphys Oil soap/water and linseed oil and do not want them to crack/break when I put them back on. I can not see saving the grips not attatched to the pistol and getting new ones for shooting? Because this will remain in the family what would the point be?

Thanks much,

Sean

 

[Ron Wood]

The point would be that you have been fortunate enough to have this Luger kept in the family and passed down to you in nice original condition. If it is to remain in the family, wouldn’t it be considerate of you to pass it on to future generations in the same condition? The same concern you have for putting the grips back on the gun without breaking them also applies to shooting the Luger. If you break an original part, either by improper installation or subjecting an 80 year-old piece to the shocks of firing, you have removed that originality forever. That is why folks recommend that if you are going to shoot a collectable Luger, you might consider buying cheap grips and other parts for shooting, and remove the aforementioned risk. After firing, you clean the gun and when you want to display the piece or are ready to pass it on to the next heir, you put the original parts back on.

 

[ssilver]

Thanks for your input, what other part would one obtain to use when firing the pistol? Where can these parts and additonal grips be had?

 

[ssilver]

Hi Pete,

Yes the holster does have 721 on the back also says lugar in script and has VL&D. The snap says Heiser and Denver.

 

[ssilver]

Should the grips be numbered on this vintage lugar?

 

[holster_collector]

quote:Originally posted by ssilver

As luck would have it Im at work and my lugar/holster at home. I will check out the holster more closely when I get home and let you know. You guys have me thinking about those grips now. I was looking forward to putting on the linseed oil and getting them back on the gun. Because I do not have any intentions on ever selling the gun I am leaning towards putting them back on the Gun and using them. I just wanted to know is there any trick to putting them back on the pistol? I am thinking they could have swelled slightly making them a bit bigger overall with the Murphys Oil soap/water and linseed oil and do not want them to crack/break when I put them back on. I can not see saving the grips not attatched to the pistol and getting new ones for shooting? Because this will remain in the family what would the point be?

Thanks much,

Sean

The point of protecting the grips is to preserve the condition and originality of the pistol. It is a valuable old gun in its present condition and will continue to grow in value and historical interest in the future. The grip panels were hand fitted to that single gun in the mid-1920s (most are serial numbered on the back side of both panels, by the way--look at yours once removed). Heavy cleaning and coating with oil or varnish may irreversibly alter its appearance and damage the grips. Be conservative in such matters. Linseed oil will probably not hurt them and may help them survive fluctuations in heat and humidity while keeping moisture in the wood from pitting the metal frame against which they rest. Therefore, I have no real problem with linseed oil. However, Murphy's Oil Soap will remove oils and if aggressive cleaning is done, the points on the grip checkering will be worn or damaged and the wood may be too dry to avoid cracking. Be conservative when trying to pretty up the gun as this has led to a great many lugers with damaged and replaced parts, hence, the high value attached to all-factory original guns like yours. Lugers like yours with a single replaced part are very common and have little more value or interest than any other generic pistol. Lugers with factory parts and finish are worth twice that and more. A single part can make that much difference. In decades to come, people can examine your luger and see exactly what parts it had when it was made and can see the original finish and fit. That is a wealth of historical information and is what makes it valuable and interesting to people.

Leather, being less durable than metal, often suffers from wear and misguided attempts at "improving" or "protecting" (oiling, slathering with goo). The result is that holsters are very rare compared to the lugers themselves. An original luger holster of any kind is of interest and can be quite valuable, like an original Heiser commercial luger holster!

Congratulations on having a luger!
Dave

 

[holster_collector]

Many are numbered--look on the back of each panel (small two-digit number matching gun's last two digits of serial number).

dave

quote:Originally posted by ssilver

Should the grips be numbered on this vintage lugar?

 

[holster_collector]

quote:Originally posted by ssilver

Thanks for your input, what other part would one obtain to use when firing the pistol? Where can these parts and additonal grips be had?

Firing pins might break at the tip if you dry fire the pistol but, in many years of having lugers, I have never broken a tip. Maybe I am just lucky although I admit I very rarely shoot them (haven't since 1998, now that I think about it). SARCO, I believe, advertises some luger grip panels and these often pop up at gun shows.

Dave

 

[ssilver]

Thank you all for your input. Your advice costs me plenty! I bought a PPK 380 to fire in place of the lugar and a SW 66 357 to fire opposed to my Remington Rand 1911. I will let these collectors rest peacefully in the gun cabinet and take them only once in a while "to make sure they still work". I will keep my eyes open when I goto the next show to see what parts I can find. I am still thinking about the Rugar NRA 22 I saw at the Gun Depot on Saturday and am still thinking.....

Thanks again all,

Sean

 

[ssilver]

Thank you all for your input. Your advice costs me plenty! I bought a PPK 380 to fire in place of the lugar and a SW 66 357 to fire opposed to my Remington Rand 1911. I will let these collectors rest peacefully in the gun cabinet and take them only once in a while "to make sure they still work". I will keep my eyes open when I goto the next show to see what parts I can find. I am still thinking about the Rugar NRA 22 I saw at the Gun Depot on Saturday and am still thinking.....

Thanks again all,

Sean