Jan C. Still Lugerforums banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
G

·
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just picked my first Luger and know little about it>
Here is info:

Serial #2716 With scripted N under barrel and number 42 is on the toggle, 41 on the barrel.
16 is on all the parts including the matching magazine.
small eagle with either 655 or 656 is on the right side.
has brown wooden grips.
barrel is slightly dirty?? pitting. Overall gun is 95-98% blued. only holster wear.
holster has another magazine with a broken wooden base Holster marked ryffel borns Hannover 1936, EAGLE WaA330
NO P.08 stamped on gun.
PLEASE HELP!!!!
thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,194 Posts
Dan, Welcome to the nut hatch. You have a code 42 (Mauser) 1941 dated Luger. The #655 is the acceptance stamp used to show acceptance by the German Military. Yours is one reported, as possibly being issued to the Luftwaffe(Air Force) or the Kriegsmarine (Navy). You have a very desireable pistol. Only approx. 7000 produced. And your 1936 dated holster is proper and also desireable ,and proper for the pistol. You have a nice rig. Take good care of it. If in deed, in the condition you state. Easily worth $1500 to$2000+. Post some photos. Some of the members will want to see this one. Congratulations, Ron
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Ron for getting back to me.
How do you know it was issued to either Luft or Kriegs?? That really surprises me. Why no P.08 marking?? Guess I have been bitten the Luger bug.
thanks
dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,194 Posts
You need to the "trader board" at the bottom of the forum. Click on Books For Sale by Jan Still and see if he still has Third Reich Lugers for sale. I was getting the information from that book. Except the value. If you are going to collect Lugers. You need to buy books, and study,study,study. Other wise you get burnt big time. You've got to know what to look for and what to look at. There are tons of fakes and more appearing all of the time. You could spend $1500 in a blink, only to find out you bought a $400 gun. And it will be too late to do anything about it. It's happened to everyone at some point. As far as the P.08 not being stamped on it I not sure. They started adding the P.08 at the first of 1941. It's possible that yours snuck by, or was built prior to the order being issued to add the P.08 stamp. In Feb.'41 they changed the two number date(41) to a four number date(1941).Your pistol was manufactured in January or early Febuary.

Ron
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Will look for the books,as directed.
Thanks for the heads up on value also.
I was afraid that I had spent $$$ on something not quite worth it,but took the chance seeing it came right from the footlocker...
Will take some photos and post in the next few hours.
thanks
dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
406 Posts
If your magazine is number matched to your pistol it should be stamped
"2716" over a scripted "n". The wooden mag, of course, would not be proper to your pistol. Regarding the possibility that your pistol was acquired by the Luftwaffe or the Kriegsmarine, Still states that some of the 41/42 P08s "may" have been acquired by those branchs of service. Since none bore any distinguishing markings so indicating such use, without provenance, it would improper to state such was the fact. You would not find "P.08" stamped on the left receiver of your pistol. Such markings did not begin until later with the "byf/41" marked P.08s.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
To Frank and Garfield,
My 41/42 does not have the P08 stamp. Have tried to take digital photo, but blurry,will try again. The magazine does have the 2716 matching number over the scripted N.
thanks
dan
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Do I have this restored or leave it as is??
Will value be influenced if cleaned/restored?
thanks to all!!!
dan
Sorry about all the questions
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
Dan,
* Ho Boy!! A trip into Luger transition land.

* Much of the following comes from the research, discussions, and conclusions gleaned from correspondence(s) provided by Forum member Don H.(SilverEagle29). Don's quotes, below, can be read in DRH's AutoMag post of April, 2000, Vol.XXXIII-Issue 1, Pg.19. Luger variation S/N ranges are from Jan Still's Third Reich Lugers", Pg. 65-66.
quote:The "P.08" marking on the left side of the frame is found on ALL 1941 and 1942 Lugers, including the 41, code 42 models.
* The above thread statement is only partially correct. The problem is with the word "ALL" I believe.

* The accepted S/N range for the '41/Code 42 is S/N 2500n to 6700r. About a 44,500 pistol range. In TRL, Jan advances an estimate for '41/42 code accepted assemblies as 7000 pistols. Stated also, the 1940/42 Code range is 7700z to 7000n. The '41/byf range is 3300n-9950a. Notice the overlap in the "n" block.

* From S/N reports, most of the "n" block are 1940/42 coded pistols. The '41/42 coded pistols tend to dominate the "o" block. Then, the '41/byf coded pistols prevail thereafter. This was not a discreet change over at a specific S/N or block; but, rather a transition. All three combinations, in varying quantity, can be found bearing the same block letter</u> and are still correct within this limited(approx. "n" to maybe as late as "r") transition range.

* I'm told, the "byf" code change, for whatever reason, could not/was not fully implemented on 1/1/41. It was not until Feb., 1941 that this code change took full effect.

* Okay so far??

* Now, intermixed into the above shuffle was an additional new marking requirement wherein the frames produced in 1941 were to have a "P.08" stamped into the left frame's vertical flat panel, approximately below the left toggle knob and above the left grip. Why? My WAG says maybe for the same reason holster began to receive the P.08 marking. Identification! The introduction of the P.38 by Walther as an Army standard sidearm must have caused some confusion in the ranks. I doubt a P.38 receiver/barrel would mate to a P.08 frame; but, you never know who might try!!

* Anyway, Mauser was allowed to recoup/use-up frames, toggles, and receiver components already produced, despite their markings, within this band of codes/dates we are discussing in the first couple of months of 1941. Mauser, after all, was a business for profit. Might have had something to do with heavy Army mobilization & WWII starting on a massive scale too.

* So, to quote Don: "We find the '41/42 Lugers were an unscheduled event. They were made up from left over 1940-42 parts and the new '41/byf parts. The very early '41/42 code "n" block pistols will not have the "P.08" mark on the left frame panel. They are usually found between 2600n and 3200n. This '41/42 code, without the P.08 mark is a very desirable addition to any Luger collection".

* Consequently, Dan, your '41/42 code bearing S/N 2716n without a "P.08" frame mark presently falls within the generally accepted S/N range of this sub-variation. It is likely correct for, at least, this one aspect.

* As a point for conjecture: Later S/N reports, since the time of Jan's TRL, have suggested the possiblity</u> of '41/42 code accepted assemblies reaching 16,000 pistols. This based on ratio's & extrapolations of these 3 main variations reported within each S/N block spanning this transition period. What are today's thoughts on the '41/42 code reaching 16,000 estimated accepted assemblies?? Fresh insights or corroboration, with cited sources, are appreciated.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Bob,
I feel as though I just sat through Luger 101 in college!
Great amount of info,much more than I would have ever realized on such a minute subject. I thank you for the info. Now I have to buy the books to do the homework. How does one put a value on this??
thanks
dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,194 Posts
Dan, One last word. DO NOT have it restored. Just clean it, oil it, and leave it as is. Unless it's completely blue worn ,severely rusted or pitted. Leave it as is. It is valuable. Refinishing will destroy that value. Enjoy it.
Ron
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I want to thank all who responded to my query. Being new to this topic has really opened my eyes to a whole other world of collecting German militaria. I will not have it restored, per suggestion. I did not finish the provenance post I started last night. It was brought home to Connecticut, where it remained in the holster(and the attic),
until just recently. Belonged to a PFC of HQ co 2nd Batt. 318th Inf.
Regiment. This was penciled in on the inside upper flap of the holster,also have copy of his discharge papers.
This does not have the tool with it, does it have to have the same serial number or no???
thanks again.
dan
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top