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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone, my wife's Grandfather has let me borrow his luger (he has just come out of a 3+ month stint in the hospital), and I'm very interested in learning as much as I can about it so that I can pass the info on to him (and hopefully add the luger to my new collection). He doesn't have much info on it, other than he believes it to be a navy luger, although from what info I have gathered on it by myself I'd have to disagree with him. He may at one point known more about this luger, but unfortunately his memory is about shot, if you get my meaning :(. Anyway, on to this mystery luger! Also, please forgive me if I incorrectly use any terminology (feel free to correct me)!

This luger is in very good shape, from what I can see and what I've been told by an officer friend of mine who collects WWII-era pieces. I believe it to be a commercially produced luger, judging from the serial # prefix of P, and the number of 20004. There are 5-point star marks on the underside of the barrel, and the right-hand side of frame, along with a Crown over N on both the barrel, two places on the left-hand side of the receiver/frame, and faintly visible on the forward toggle link. It has the HK mark with Krieghoff Suhl there, as well. Also found in various places are what appears to be a stick eagle with the number 2 under it (underside of barrel, interior parts of toggle link, etc). As you can see in the pictures, the blueing appears to be in excellent shape, as well as the straw colored parts. It has 1 mag, which bears a different serial number (25593). The serial number, where printed, matches on all other parts (trigger, coupling link, etc).

I have little clue what the marks/proofs mean, as I've found all sorts of conflicting information on the web. I have no idea when this was manufactured, or if it truely is a commerically produced luger. Any information at all that you can give me would be very much appreciated. If I've hit the nail on the head with my own research, then wow :), I'll be surprised. Also, if anyone could give me a rough idea of the value of this luger I'd appreciate it. I realize that if it's a commercially produced luger the value won't be as high as a military luger, but that won't stop my wife's grandfather from asking! :D

Thanks again!

Please excuse the bad quality of some of the pictures. I don't have my good digital camera available right now, but will be able to take more pictures at request later tonight.

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Rob, I beleive I see a sear safety on the left side? It is the little dog-leg thing towards the top, but below the toggle... If it is, I'd like a good, clear picture of that part of it...

If it is an untouched krieg, they are fairly valuable. Your grandfather was told years ago that the anchor that goes with the krieg name meant it was a navy, that of course is incorrct, but at the time he was told, it appeared to be correct.

What does the bottom of the magazine have written on it?

And I wouldn't take it shooting, I have a couple of nice lugers or p38's I'll trade you if you plan on shooting her :)
 

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Rob, I beleive I see a sear safety on the left side? It is the little dog-leg thing towards the top, but below the toggle... If it is, I'd like a good, clear picture of that part of it...

If it is an untouched krieg, they are fairly valuable. Your grandfather was told years ago that the anchor that goes with the krieg name meant it was a navy, that of course is incorrct, but at the time he was told, it appeared to be correct.

What does the bottom of the magazine have written on it?

And I wouldn't take it shooting, I have a couple of nice lugers or p38's I'll trade you if you plan on shooting her :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks, I have a picture handy, but it isn't the best. I'll post this one now, and if you'd like I can take a much better picture tonight when I have more time to take out my good camera.

Edit: Here's the picture
Edit #2: This is one of the few areas on the gun that the bluing has shown some wear, all in all not bad for a 60~ year old gun.

Download Attachment: safetyresized.JPG
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks, I have a picture handy, but it isn't the best. I'll post this one now, and if you'd like I can take a much better picture tonight when I have more time to take out my good camera.

Edit: Here's the picture
Edit #2: This is one of the few areas on the gun that the bluing has shown some wear, all in all not bad for a 60~ year old gun.

Download Attachment: safetyresized.JPG
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Here's a picture of the bottom of the magazine, again, sorry for the quality. The serial number, unfortunately, doesn't match, and I don't believe there are any other markings on the mag except the serial number. When I get home I'll take a good long look at the mag again and make sure I'm not missing any markings (when I broke it down for the pictures I found markings I hadn't seen before). It is the only mag that he has (unless he's forgotten, of course). Lucky I took all these pictures when I did, heh!



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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Here's a picture of the bottom of the magazine, again, sorry for the quality. The serial number, unfortunately, doesn't match, and I don't believe there are any other markings on the mag except the serial number. When I get home I'll take a good long look at the mag again and make sure I'm not missing any markings (when I broke it down for the pictures I found markings I hadn't seen before). It is the only mag that he has (unless he's forgotten, of course). Lucky I took all these pictures when I did, heh!



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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ah, I know what you're talking about now. Try this picture and let me know. Again, I can take better resolution tonight.

Edit: My wife's grandfather has shot this on occasion, and bought more ammo so that she and him could go shoot it together, but they never got around to it. Unfortunately, he really isn't in the shape that I'd feel comfortable with him going shooting anymore anyway, and hopefully he doesn't get any bright ideas now that he's finally out of the hospital.

Edit #2: More information. I just talked to my wife and mentioned that I had posted pictures of the luger on this board for some help identifying it, and she told me a bit more about the luger that her grandfather had told her. I'll try to get the rest of the story tonight, but I'm not sure it it's actually true or not. Apparently, the man that he bought this luger from said that it actually belonged to a German Officer during the war (although which war he was referring to is a bit unsure). He took it to get appraised a few years ago and the local gunshop appraised it at $2,000+. I wouldn't put too much stock in what they say, however, as I've heard a few negative things about them and the way they do gun business.

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ah, I know what you're talking about now. Try this picture and let me know. Again, I can take better resolution tonight.

Edit: My wife's grandfather has shot this on occasion, and bought more ammo so that she and him could go shoot it together, but they never got around to it. Unfortunately, he really isn't in the shape that I'd feel comfortable with him going shooting anymore anyway, and hopefully he doesn't get any bright ideas now that he's finally out of the hospital.

Edit #2: More information. I just talked to my wife and mentioned that I had posted pictures of the luger on this board for some help identifying it, and she told me a bit more about the luger that her grandfather had told her. I'll try to get the rest of the story tonight, but I'm not sure it it's actually true or not. Apparently, the man that he bought this luger from said that it actually belonged to a German Officer during the war (although which war he was referring to is a bit unsure). He took it to get appraised a few years ago and the local gunshop appraised it at $2,000+. I wouldn't put too much stock in what they say, however, as I've heard a few negative things about them and the way they do gun business.

Download Attachment: searsafetyresized.JPG
97.12 KB
 

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Wow! This is totally out of my area of limited knowledge, but if authentic it is one rare puppy. It certainly has all the earmarks of a "P Code Series I - Early, Five Digit Sub-variation" (per Gibson, page 196). The only thing that this non-expert eye has some doubts about is the side frame inscription. It appears hand engraved and not pantographed, and the "n" in "Waffenfabrik" is so lightly cut that it looks like a "r" until you look at it very closely. I don't know if this is the way this marking is supposed to be but it sure looks like the real deal to me (i.e. don't take my assessment to the bank). John Dunkel...chime in here.
 

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Wow! This is totally out of my area of limited knowledge, but if authentic it is one rare puppy. It certainly has all the earmarks of a "P Code Series I - Early, Five Digit Sub-variation" (per Gibson, page 196). The only thing that this non-expert eye has some doubts about is the side frame inscription. It appears hand engraved and not pantographed, and the "n" in "Waffenfabrik" is so lightly cut that it looks like a "r" until you look at it very closely. I don't know if this is the way this marking is supposed to be but it sure looks like the real deal to me (i.e. don't take my assessment to the bank). John Dunkel...chime in here.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well, you've both lost me there :) I'd be happy with the Luger even if it is just run-of-the-mill (as I said, I'm hoping he gives it to me). I think this calls for some good high res pictures of the areas in question. You've certainly got my curiousity piqued, I'll tell you that much.

I thought the P indicated a commercial run of Krieghoffs? Does it indicate Police? Let me know if I can provide anything else specifically. What exactly is a "P Code Series I - Early, Five Digit Sub-variation"? Excuse my newbiness, but I'm completely new to gun collecting (just starting the collecting bit).

-Rob
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well, you've both lost me there :) I'd be happy with the Luger even if it is just run-of-the-mill (as I said, I'm hoping he gives it to me). I think this calls for some good high res pictures of the areas in question. You've certainly got my curiousity piqued, I'll tell you that much.

I thought the P indicated a commercial run of Krieghoffs? Does it indicate Police? Let me know if I can provide anything else specifically. What exactly is a "P Code Series I - Early, Five Digit Sub-variation"? Excuse my newbiness, but I'm completely new to gun collecting (just starting the collecting bit).

-Rob
 

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No, the P was just the commerical (I beleive), this is out of my arena, I know weimar police ok, but kriegs, uhhhhhh....

Oh, and I sent you an e-mail :)

Ed
 

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No, the P was just the commerical (I beleive), this is out of my arena, I know weimar police ok, but kriegs, uhhhhhh....

Oh, and I sent you an e-mail :)

Ed
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks for the e-mail, I replied to it. I've taken full size high resolution pictures and I'll post them on my website and put links here. Just be aware they each picture will be 2.5 mb+ :D. I think these pictures will cover the two you asked for in your e-mail, as well as better versions of what has already been posted. Let me know if you guys need any other pictures.
 
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