[pisto]

on my 1916 Erfurt Luger,9394 at the right side above the grips, there is a marking like I show on the picture!
Hold opens are normally added in more early Lugers, why on a 1916??
does anybody know what that stange marking mean?

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[Dwight Gruber]

Pisto,

That is definitely an added holdopen pin, although the marking beside it is not a recognized (recorded) work proof, to my knowledge. Is this truly a 1914-style frame, that is, with a stock lug?

--Dwight

 

[Jan C Still]

Dwight and Pisto
On Page 3 of this section under 1914 RG Lugers there is a similar Luger (See 3 below).
"Figure 3. 1914 DWM Commercial Luger, serial number 74596, detail of right side frame above the trigger guard.. A metal pin has been added during manufacture to facilitate installation of the hold open. This metal pin was finished and blued with the Luger during manufacturing. Other Commercial Army and RG Lugers have been observed with a similar blued metal pin added during manufacturing to facilitate installation of the hold open (Serial number 70149, 74200 and 74596)."

I suspect if one looks, this might show up on various other Lugers.
Jan

 

[Dwight Gruber]

Jan,

By "metal bar" are you referring to what I called the holdopen pin, that is, the exterior end of the pin as inserted into the frame for the holdopen to rotate on? Or am I missing something?

--Dwight

 

[Jan C Still]

Dwight
Thanks for the correction. Pin is more proper than bar. I will make the appropriate changes.
Jan

 

[pisto]

Dwight, no it is not a 1914, it is a 1916 Erfurt, that is what makes me wondering. The frame does - HAVE!- a stock lug. (Sorry Dwight,I mixed it up)
this lever marking was also stamped on the frame panel on the left side, where the sideplate slips in and covers it.

 

[Dwight Gruber]

(deleted on account of confusion)

 

[Doubs]

The additional pictures, posted after Dwight's reply, do show a stock lug so it's likely a properly matched pistol. The lower picture, however, shows what I believe to be a repair of some nature as evidenced by the discolored metal due to the application of heat. It's quite possible that this pistol was somehow damaged in the hold-open area and what we see now is the result of the repair.

 

[LU1900]

I don't know if interesting for you but I have the same as Pisto on my DWM dutch M11 KOL stamped n°13342.I can do pics if you want.It's the same pin add on the frame and mine turn

 

[pisto]

Doubs, referring to your contribution: "...repair of some nature as evidenced by the discolored metal due to the application of heat. ... that this pistol was somehow damaged in the hold-open area and what we see now is the result of the repair."
I will add a picture showing another Erfurt, that is showing that discolored metal (heat blue) at the same spot, not so good, but still visible, what I would say is coming from the milling tools not as sharp as they should be! That makes sense in the ERFURT factory where they don´t use the high quality like DWM - so they don´t take care of old milling tools.


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[Dwight Gruber]

Pisto,

This is quite interesting. Lugers underwent polishing on their interior surfaces as the final stage of the rust bluing process, so heat coloring would indicate work done after the pistol was finished.

LU1900,

I'm very interested to see the pictures of your KOL Dutch. Is there a GS stamp anywhere associated with this work?

--Dwight

 

[Doubs]

Pisto,

Excellent point and reason to re-think my original conclusion. I also have to ask the question why a 1916 Erfurt, manufactured with a hold-open, would have a pin that normally only shows when a hold-open has been added to a gun that was originally made without one. All reasons I can think of are pure speculation so I'll keep them to myself for the time being. Excellent photos, BTW.

 

[pisto]

Doubs, yes, I still be confused at that point too, and I think that simple "lever" mark, probably from the armorer is made tho confirm his work - the pin added in the hold open panel.

Dwight: Y>ou are 100% right, the frames have been kind of polished after rust bluing, and that is exacxtly what happened! The heat blue is just remaining on the little panel, where the armorers couldn t reach the surface so good, the spots where the reciever is moving are polished - the same with the magazine panel, there is not any blue ore heat colour remaining.
This is my only explanation for this heat colours at that spot! They came from not sharp mill tools, although in that blue colour temperature a milling tool is really damaged! They didn t have HSS ore carbide tools at that time, only carbone steels which are quite more sensitive with high speeds ore heavy duty.

 

[Nagoya10]

I want to comment on the holdopen pivot pin. On every Luger (at least Erfurts) I have had, that I looked closely at that spot on the right rail, you can make out a pin. It appears the pin was put in during manufacture then machined with the rail. Some fit tighter than others so some are noticable and some arent unless you look really close, maybe with magnification. How else would they get a pivot pin in there? You can't machine it out of the receiver so you have to insert it during manufacture, on hold open factory equipped Lugers. As to the heat color, it could be from tool speed, but I think it more likely that is a heat treated part of the frame you are seeing. If it was tool speed you would think the coloring would go the whole distance of the slot. I doubt they would polish down into a slot so you still see the coloring, unlike other parts. I believe that certain parts of the frame received more or less heat treatment than others, but I may be wrong. I do know on Japanese Nambus you can see spots on the rear part of the frame, on late guns, that are distinctly discolored from a higher grade of heat treating.