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I have a question about the very large Crown over Roman Numeral stamp found on the back of some holsters. I don't have a picture of it, it is the mark noted in Costanzo, p.188, 104 and 104a. Costanzo calls them Weimar Military Police holster proofs.

I have seen two recently, one on a holster currently on Ebay and one in a shop near to me which I suspect may be bogus. Both holsters are military style with buckle closure.

Is this the proper holster to find these proofs on? Is there a history of counterfeiting these marks?

--Dwight
 

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Dwight
The Crown over Roman Numeral is found on Imperial holsters. I do not recall seeing it on a holster manufactured during the Weimar Era. It is usually stamped on the holsters back (sometimes it will be partly under a belt loop). Collectors have suggested that the stamps may represent the three Imperial Bavarian Army Corps.
Jan
 

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Dwight
The Crown over Roman Numeral is found on Imperial holsters. I do not recall seeing it on a holster manufactured during the Weimar Era. It is usually stamped on the holsters back (sometimes it will be partly under a belt loop). Collectors have suggested that the stamps may represent the three Imperial Bavarian Army Corps.
Jan
 

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Dwight
On page 241 of Weimar Lugers a 1918 dated Imperial holster converted to a Weimar police holster is shown. It bears a crown II that is a reminant of the Imperial era.
Jan
 

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Dwight
On page 241 of Weimar Lugers a 1918 dated Imperial holster converted to a Weimar police holster is shown. It bears a crown II that is a reminant of the Imperial era.
Jan
 

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Crown I, II or III holsters are Bavarian holsters made in 1918. Bavaria got 3 Armeekorps Crown I for the first AK and so on. Leather was rationed in the last year of the I.WW. On Prussian 1918 dated holsters you can find L.Z.A Karlsruhe, Breslau, Berlin and so on. LZA means Lederzuweisungsamt. I hope yor understand my poor English. Regards from Germany
 

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I would agree that these holsters are Bavarian, BUT....not all were dated 1918. I have a number of them in my collection that are dated as early as 1916. Others dated before 1918 can also be found for sale on some websites.
 

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The holster Jan mentions illustrated on page 241 came from my collection... Its was apparently modified from the buckle down military closure to a pull strap and stud Police style, you can still see the stitching holes from buckle down arrangement..
 

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Klaus--I have two of the Crown marked holsters in my house at the present time. They are dated 1916 and 1917. I have others that are dated 1918, by far the most common date. I also have other pre-1918 Imperial holsters marked with the Crown/roman numeral NOT here at home, but in storage (where most of my guns reside). I will be posting photos of the two I have here. One is marked inside the flap to JgzPf9, with a Crown/I on the rear. It is also double stamped inside the flap with maker's mark: one mark reads "F. Fischer KGB",the other is "F. Fischer 1917." The second stamp is too close to the tool pocket edge to photograph. The other marks should show up on the Forum photos. The other holster has a Crown/III on the rear. Stamped inside the flap is: J.M. Eckart, 1916, Ulm a/D."
I also recently saw a pre-1918 Crown/roman numeral marked holster for sale on the internet but cannot remember where. I will be searching for it again tonight and let you know if I find it again.
Hope this information is helpful. Herman



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Klaus---the holster marked to the Jaeger Regiment has a handwritten name inside the flap. The name is "Dr Frenz." Might this be a veterinarian who worked with the Jaeger horses? Any chance of finding any other information on Dr Frenz in the German archives? Herman
 

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Herman's posted holsters are a revelation to me. I have never seen a holster crown marked that was not a 1918 Bavarian made holster. Perhaps his examples were not brought into Bavarian army depots until 1918. This would explain the earlier maker date with the later depot marking.
 

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Herman! I saw many holsters with C/I, II and III during the years but never one made before 1918.
You wrote me about one which was made by J.M.Eckhart Ulm with C/II. This holster maker was from Würrtemberg and made leather for the XIII. Armeekorps and I think not for a Bavarian Armeekorps. So may be I´m also wrong with C/I, II and III for the 3 Bavarian Armeekorps.
 
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