[Guest]

I recently added a M83 revolver made by Mauser to my collection - it is marked " WAFFENF MAUSER " - 1883 with an issue date of '86. Now, according to John Walter's book, the only book I have on Reichs Revolvers, they don't even exist !! and there are only two reported in Jeff Noll's markings book.

Are they rare OR just RARE ??

 

[Heinrich]

Congratulation,
you have acquired a rare piece. Only 1500 have been ordered by the Württemberg Ministry of War.
More Details are published in the book: "Der Reichsrevolver und seine Varianten", 464 pgs, more than 500 color pictures,captions german/english, a short english summary is added to each chapter.

Distributer in USA:
Bob Adams
P.O. Box 23010
Albuquerque, NM 87192 USA
email: [email protected]

Europe:
Directly at the publisher:
DWJ- Verlags GmbH
Schmollerstr. 31
D- 74523 Schwäbisch Hall
Germany
ISBN 3-936632-40-5
Order-no. 09-1377
Price: 59 Euro + p/h.

 

[Guest]

Heinrich,

Many thanks for the information.

Although they are rare, the fact doesn't seem to be common knowledge. The one I have didn't cost anymore than the other M83's I have - I'm glad to say !!

Regards,

Peter.

 

[Heinrich]

Peter,

If you should ever sell this piece, give me a chance.

 

[Guest]

Heinrich,

I think it will be a long time before I think of selling the revolver. I have only recently started collecting Reichs Revolvers having collected Imperial German bayonets for many years. I only have four, so far, one M79 and three M83's plus two holsters. It's something of a new beginning for me.

Regards,

Peter.

 

[Heinrich]

Peter,
I continue to search on Reichsrevolvers and still interested in serial numbers and other details:
Manufacturers, additional markings, unit markings etc.

As "thank you" I could translate your unit markings, if possible with my documents and if you want. This could be also of interest for all the other friends.

 

[Guest]

Heinrich,

Regarding the new book on Reichsrevolvers - did you write it or is it just a coincidence that the author's name is also Heinrich ?

Being a long time collector of Imperial bayonets I understand the unit markings for the most part and any I don't understand, I ask Jeff Noll. But I am more than willing to share the information, that is how we collectors survive - exchange of information. I have an insatiable thirst for knowledge - any further information you can provide would most certainly be welcome.

1/. M79 - F.v.Dreyse - 1881 - serial no. 2550 - munition column marking - 1.M.I.27.28.

2/. M83 - V.C.S. C.G.H. - '85 - serial no. 1570 - Amberg arsenal " GF " mark on barrel - first unit mark, ( which is struck out but not very well - it's still perfectly readable ), for Bavarian pioneers - B.2.P.1.1. - second unit mark for a Bavarian munition column - B.script L.M.II.5.121.

3/. M83 - Erfurt - 1895 - serial no. 2128 - munition column marking - 1.M.1.G.script R.9.

4/. M83 - WaffenF.Mauser. - 1883 - '86 - serial no. 919 - Wurttemberg Antler mark on barrel - medical unit marking - W.script R.S.15.

Regards,

Peter.

 

[Heinrich]

Peter,
Yes, I'm the author and now working on the chapter "German Navy Revolvers" in this case together with a friend.
I see that Jeff Noll's book is familiar to you and I think there is no open question. A great book and a must for everybody who cames in touch with Imperial German military items.
The year markings on your growing Reichsrevolver collection are issue dates.
Except the year stamp on the Erfurt- M/83. It's the year of manufacture.
Thank you for all the details.

 

[Guest]

Heinrich,

I have been trying to obtain a copy of your book here in the UK - without much luck so far. Do you know if DWJ have an agent in the UK ??

I have only ever seen the " Antler " stamp on early WW1 conversion bayonets before - I didn't realise it was a standard Wurttemberg property stamp.

A friend of mine has just recently got a Prussian Navy issued percussion revolver but he's not a member of this forum.

Regards,

Peter.

 

[eroane]

quote:Originally posted by Heinrich

Peter,
I continue to search on Reichsrevolvers and still interested in serial numbers and other details:
Manufacturers, additional markings, unit markings etc.

As "thank you" I could translate your unit markings, if possible with my documents and if you want. This could be also of interest for all the other friends.

Hello Heinrich
I read where you are interested in more unit marked Reichrevolvers.
I have two 1883 models.
The first is a VC.S. & C.G.H. SUHL S.N.887 unit marked 14.A.6.37. and the other is a ERFURT dated 1893 S.N. 5467 unit marked 9.R.(script)A.3.76.


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I also have a holster maker marked F.Fischer above KGB that I can take photos if you are interested.
I look forward to getting a copy of your new book when I locate one.
Thanks

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Holster photos.


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[Heinrich]

Ed,
Thank you very much for the serial-nos. and unit markings.
A photo of the holster stamp would be fine.

 

[Guest]

Ed,

That's a nice holster !!

Is the buckle on the ammunition pouch Black painted Steel instead of Brass ??

Regards,

Peter.

 

[eroane]

quote:Originally posted by Petereye05

Ed,

That's a nice holster !!

Is the buckle on the ammunition pouch Black painted Steel instead of Brass ??

Regards,

Peter.

Hi Peter
Yes, the buckle is black painted steel, although most of the black paint is thin or worn off except for a spot here and there.

 

[Guest]

Ed,

All the M81 holsters for the M79 revolver, I've seen so far, have had Steel buckles but yours is the first M91 holster I've seen with a Steel buckle instead of Brass.

I think I need to get out more !!

Regards,

Peter.

 

[Heinrich]

Peter,
The holsters for the M/79 commonly found have the model designation M/87.
The M/81 holster was the first holster issued to the troops in large quantities.
But today it is one of the most rarest holster for the M/79. Significant for the M/81 are the belt loops, visible at the front of the holster above the flap.
With the introduction of the M/87 (loops on the back side) all M/81 holsters have been modified.

 

[Heinrich]

Peter,
Let me correct a little bit.
The antler is not the property stamp but a proof mark.(additionally found on the cylinder) The property stamp is on the but (M/79) or close to lanyard ring eye (M/83).
Prussian Navy Colt:
Please be so kind and ask your friend for the KM number and the serial number. It's of great interest for me.

Reichsrevolver book:
I don't know exactly whether the DWJ has a sales agent in UK.
I recommend to order directly at the DWJ. They do accept credit cards.

 

[Guest]

Heinrich,

Thanks for clearing that up. In John Walter's book there is only one designation for the holster for the M79.

You are the expert and I am only the novice in Reichsrevolver history - I am still learning - but I think it is only fair to warn you I am a quick learner - a fact I shall prove to you, someday, when I publish " Der Reichsrevolver und seine Varianten - Band II " !!!

 

[Guest]

Heinrich,

If the Antler stamp is a proof mark, as you say, why is it not present on all Wurttemberg marked arms ??

As I said previously I have seen the antlers on conversion bayonets, which usually also have " Wurttemberg " in an oval cartouche on the pommel - but in my collection I have one the rare ersatz bayonets, an EB56 using the late Anthony Carter's numbering system, these bayonets were used exclusively by Wurttemberg troops and this bayonet is not stamped with the Antlers.

The only thing I can think of and maybe you can confirm this ?? - is that the marking fell into disuse as WW1 progressed.

 

[Heinrich]

Peter,
I'm sorry but I don't know why the antler is not on all Württemberg's arms. Three antlers were in the coat of arms of the kingdom of Württemberg at that time.
I guess the WWI progress has nothing to do with the procedure of military quality inspection, which was standardized in the German Reich.

 

[CBrown]

Just to complicate the discussion regarding antler markings further: I have in my collection an S98 by Simson & Co., Suhl; crown/W 06 (i.e., Prussian accepted); unit mark: S.1.187. with antler stamp across the rear face of the pommel. Another collector reports a Mauser-made Gew 98, 1901, with antler; no unit stamp reported.