[Mark]

Gentlemen,

I have the great privilege of not only owning two P.38s with the HZa marking but having the opportunity to photograph the marking with a 5x macro lens.

Information about the guns are located at this link:

http://www.p38guns.com/HzAStamp.htm

The question of the exact meaning of the abbreviaion has been talked about in AutoMag, so my question is .... does it look like jc3 or jt3?

Mark

Download Attachment: HZa.jpg
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[Ron Smith]

Mark, It looks like a rough C to me. I played with your photo until I got it to stand out a bit more.

Ron

Download Attachment: Marks HZ.jpg
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[Fritz]

Mark,

It's hard to say if that's a C or t or E. Literatur says C.
Look on the stamping of my P.08 DWM rework. You can blow up the pics.
This stamping is to discus also.

Fritz

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Download Attachment: Kopie.jpg
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[eroane]

quote:Originally posted by Fritz


Mark,

It's hard to say if that's a C or t or E. Literatur says C.
Look on the stamping of my P.08 DWM rework. You can blow up the pics.
This stamping is to discus also.

Fritz

Download Attachment: 23.11.jpg a.jpg
153.44 KB

Download Attachment: Kopie.jpg
122.76 KB

Hello Fritz
I tried converting your HZa marking to a negative image and it looks like it may be Jt3.

Download Attachment: 7.jpg
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[Guest]

I think you will find the marking "Jt" plus number to indicate the particular Instandsetzungwerkstätte(Repair Shop) within the HeeresZeugAmt organization that performed the repair or modification to the weapon. The capital letter "J" was often used to represent the letter "I".

 

[Mark]

Very interesting!

I had posted this on another forum and one individual replied "The closest thing Costanzo shows in WOL Proofmarks is an E/HZA.J.L.3 Heerszeugamter defined as an Army equipment depot rework proof, used from 1928 into the 30s. "J representing building J, "L" (lager) or Depot #3"

To me it looks like a "t" not an "L" in two of the photos. The AC 40 gun looks like a light strike cutting off part of the top of the "t".

Mark

 

[Guest]

I'm not sure if I made this link properly but...
http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1294
should take you to Waffensammler's posting of some original codes. The third scanned page down on his 3/13 post has the Hza codes. There is a similar one listed but it's not identical (Jst? later mark?, additional sites?).

 

[k98man]

Gentlemen, this is one of the most interesting topics needing far more research effort. For me it is clear that the marking reads Jt 3. Jt may stand for Instandsetzung meaning repair and maintenance. Some collectors discuss Jt with Infanterie (infantry). But from the logical point I would tend to decode it as Instandsetzung. I have other guns in my collection e.g. a Vz.24 rifle which has been reworked in a depot and marked HZaJt 20. Another one is a K.98k rifle (bnz.41) marked HNZa plus number (Heeresnebenzeugamt). The one or two digit number is standing for the depot itself. Now we have to research to find a list with all the Heereszeugaemter to identify the location of them. Probably the number was correlated with an official person working for a particular depot. Comparable to the WaA numbering system. Now the search goes on. Regards Dietrich

 

[Poot]

Forgive me for resurrecting an old thread, but I was hoping someone could provide the document(s) referenced in post #7 above. It appears to be a bad link at this time.

Also, has there been any headway made on this topic since? I have two Carcano carbines that are 'Jt3' marked, as well as a Yugoslav Model 1924 that is very clearly German modified, and is 'Jt20' marked. I realize that this is a pistol forum, but I can't imagine that the depots changed their stamping practices from rifles to pistols.

Thank you,
Pat

 

[2bnag]

Forgive me for resurrecting an old thread, but I was hoping someone could provide the document(s) referenced in post #7 above. It appears to be a bad link at this time.

Also, has there been any headway made on this topic since? I have two Carcano carbines that are 'Jt3' marked, as well as a Yugoslav Model 1924 that is very clearly German modified, and is 'Jt20' marked. I realize that this is a pistol forum, but I can't imagine that the depots changed their stamping practices from rifles to pistols.

Thank you,
Pat

This might help: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?44488-Code-Markings&highlight=HeeresZeugAmt

 

[Poot]

Thanks, 2bnag. I was told it was in a different format, and from a German source, but I'm not sure. There seems to be some confusion about the exact abbreviations used for particular HZa's, and I'm not sure what is correct and what might be post-war speculation or reconstruction of codes based only on speculation.

Thank you,
Pat