[Guest]

Hello I'm new to this forum. Not new to collecting handguns, just this new one, Luger's. Anyway need help to ID this one.
serial # 29100 front of trigger guard. Barrel under side, 860 german A then 8.83 by the base of it. left side of toggle "crown B", right side toggle looks like (.), actually like a rounded H? Seriel #'s on the toggle, side plate, take down lever. Mag # 100 w/sa in box, second mag not marked(both wood base). Holster SA and PAV.

Any help would be appreciated, as I have four more to ID also.
Thanks,
Jeff

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[Dwight Gruber]

Jeff,

Wow, this is a very interesting Luger. One hardly knows where to start.

The frame is a long-frame, -very- early 1906. The crown/B on the left side of the breechblock is part of a BUG proof set, very likely belonging to the frame. The receiver and barrel are from a different gun entirely, probably a P-08, very definitely shorter than the frame. This gun would appear to have been put together in a Finnish armory and at least some of the parts renumbered.

There are many more questins than answers here, and some additional pictures would be useful.

Could you photograph the front of the frame?

Is there a number stamped below the c/B on the breechblock?

Could you photograph the mark on the right breechblock?

Is there a number stamped on the underside of the center toggle?

Is there a number stamped on the bottom of the trigger plate?

Could you photograph the thumb safety area with the lever in both the up and down postition, and in which position is the weapon safe?

Is there any evidence of markings on the right receiver?

Are there any other markings on the barrel?

What are the markings on or around the receiver lug?

Are there markings stamped on the back of the holster, or inside the flap?

Looking forward to the reply.

--Dwight

 

[Guest]

Dwight, I'll reply with more pics. Not too many markings on this pistol. I've photo'd all the markings the best I could. I have not taken it apart yet. It is "safe" in the up position, no markings around the thumb safety. Nothing else on the barrell, just three markings on the holster, ctr toggle is "2"?, Trigger plate, do I have to take it apart to see this? My old Colt's are much simpler to take apart and ID.

 

[Guest]

Dwight, appreciate all the help with my weird Luger.
Jeff

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[Dwight Gruber]

Jeff,

Useful additional pictures.

The figure stamped on the right breechblock appears to be a crown/U, on its side (as is the crown/B on the left). It is unusual for a BUG proofed Luger to be stamped there, but it is consistent as an original part with what it appears to be the origin of this Luger. Crown/B, Crown/U, Crown/G (found only on a barrel) are the pre-1910 German proof marking system. The c/B, c/U on the sides of the center toggle suggest a possible 1906 origin as well.

The size and style of the numbers on the front of the frame give you an indication of what to expect for the gun's original numbers. The parts which are stamped with a larger, different style can be attributed to the gun's rework. The 3-digit number stamping is out of the ordinary as well--small parts were customarily stamped with only the last two numbers, even on 5-digit number guns--compare with the numbers on the tail of the rear toggle.

It appears from you photograph that the number 26 is stamped on the bottom edge of the side plate. Not originally with the frame or the barrel/receiver, this means that the side plate came from a Commercial, pre-1912 Army, or Navy DWM Luger.

The thumb safety operation of you Luger is normal for a 1906 model, has not been altered to conform to the 1908 standard. A 1906 with its original finish would have an area of the frame at the lower position polished--actually, very shallowly milled--white, to designate 'safe'. Although blued over in the rework, with very close examination you might be able to detect its remnants.

It is disappointing that there are no other markings on the barrel, one would expect at least a power proof stamp. This could give an indication of the origin of the barrel, Commercial or military, and approximately when. 860i (letter suffix inlcuded) is the serial number of the weapon which donated it; 8,83 (with a comma as a decimal point in the European style) is the actual measured land diameter of the bore.

The numeral 2 you picture is on the rear toggle, and is not a mark which is useful in identification. I refer to a number actually stamped into the middle of the underside of the part. I'm afraid that it will be necessary to disassemble the gun in order to see this, the breechblock number, and any markings on the bottom receiver lug. The breechblock and center toggle numbers will confirm whether or not they are matching to the frame, and the bottom receiver marks may help identify where the receiver and barrel came from.

--Dwight

 

[Guest]

I'll get it apart and see what the numbers are. Again thanks for all the help.
Jeff

 

[Guest]

Dwight, I pulled it apart. Ctr Toggle stamped 88 with what looks like a 0 turned 45 degrees. The barrel has 00 on the lug, right side next to the lug looks like an 8? or g, other side looks like another proof mark o with a dot in the middle of it. Barrel is 8,83, serial 860 on barrel. Pulled one grip,looked inside, grips stamped small 00 and large 100, one side also has a "C" and the other has a what appears to be a 7 with a slash through it. Some people make their 7's like that. I could not find any other markings on the frame anywhere elso. I know its had to put a value on this rig, ball park maybe. Again thanks for all the help. Also what is the difference between the long frame and short frame? Thanks again, Jeff

 

[Dwight Gruber]

Jeff,

Follow this link to a tutorial on long & short frame variations http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1304&SearchTerms=frame+tutorial

Center toggle is probably not original to the gun, the receiver stamped 00 on the lug probably is. Receiver was rebarrelled at some point, without proofs or inspection marks it is impossible to say by whom or when except that it probably came off another gun. The Finns scavenged parts wherever they could to come up with whole guns.

From you descriiption the grips may be original to the gun, and restamped with 100. Stray characters and letters on the gun and grips are workers' and internal inspector's marks, their meanings are obscure. 7 marked with a slash as you describe is the common European manner or writing that numeral.

I'm afraid that you are going to have to depend on a Finnish Luger expert for a ballpark value.

--Dwight