[MSO509]

I have a Luger I recently bought and have been reading the info on how to know what you have, now on the right side of the receiver and barrell there ia a eagle that doesn't look like any on the web pages, I looked up Germany in the school books and my eagle looks like the coat of arms for Germany. There is also a eagle with this underneath its wing span waA66, there is also a half a eagle on it. The serial number is 5418U, all parts have matching numbers, the magazines and holster also have matching numbers. There is on the bottom of one magazines a eagle with a circle with crossed looks like eyeglasses underneath. There is a number engraved into the butt of the gun 335. it is also on the inside of the gun and on the holster. On the left side at the safety on you can read GESICHERT, there are no markings on the left side of the receiver or barrell.

Any help will be appreciated, I tried to take pictures of it but I can't get close enough. The Luger looks real good, I'd say it still has 95 per cent or more of its origional blue finish.

Thanks for any help,
Mike Hanners

 

[Edward Tinker]

Mike, if no date on the top, and no numbers on the left, it might be a commerical. Is there writing on the toggle, i.e. DWM, byf, Mauser, etc, or is it blank?

Is it 9mm or 7.65mm?

One thing you can do is take lots of pictures, plenty of natural light, close and not close and pick which ones are ok to show.

It actually sounds like a police model to me, is there a sear safety? This would be a bar across the top of the left side of the gun. I don't have pictures on this computer or I'd show you...

And WELCOME to the forum!

Ed

 

[Jan C Still]

Mike
Sounds like you might have a 29 DWM made in early 1930, probably for the police. Click on the link below.
Jan

POLICE 29 DWM, SN 8085t Jan C Still http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=217

 

[donmaus]

quote:There is a number engraved into the butt of the gun 335. it is also on the inside of the gun and on the holster.

Mike,

If you can't get photos of them, could you describe these marks in more detail? Exactly where are they located? Are there any letters or other marks associated with them?

 

[MSO509]

Ed,
It is a 9mm and does have a sear safety. There are no marks on the left side,the top is blank, the right side of the receiver has three different eagles, one with the WaA66, there is one eagle on the right side of the barrel. On the butt of the gun is 335. it is also inside the gun.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[MSO509]

donmaus,
Thanks, the numbers 335. are as I hold the gun in my hand,behind my little finger on the rim of the butt where the magazine slides in, it is on the very edge of the metal before the magazine opening. I had a friend take it apart as I have no idea how to take it apart or put it back together, but the other 335. is on the inside of the frame, and it is also on its holster.

Thanks again,

Mike

 

[donmaus]

Mike,

I was thinking that the "335" might be the weapon number in a police unit mark but it is not like any one I've seen, particularly being repeated inside the frame. Maybe someone else can identify it.

 

[Frank]

I agree with Jan, It sounds like a BKIW to me!! The U-Block might be a Mauser put together from a combination of DWM and Mauser parts!!

These are nice pistols!! I have a 2763U BKIW and just love it!!

 

[MSO509]

Frank,
What exactly is a BKIW?

Mike

 

[drbuster]

Berlin Karlsruhe Industrie Werke

 

[Frank]

Thanks "Doc" ya beat me to it!! BKIW was the company that bought out Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken (DWM) in the late 1920s.

 

[Dwight Gruber]

Actually BKIW didn't "buy out" DWM. In 1922 DWM changed their Corporate identity to Berlin Karlsruhe Industrie Werke, for reasons more complicated than I have time to post here this morning. BKIW still manufactured pistols and ammunition under the DWM trademark. This continued until the decision in the early 30s to subsume all operations under Mauser operation (which they controlled).

--Dwight

 

[Vlim]

Hi,

Indeed BKIW (Berlin Karlsruher Instustriewerke A.G.) was just the same old DWM company, but with a name that tried to emphasize on the peace-time products they produced. (and most probably to draw attention away from the allied control committee, as they were still firmly in the arms business

On the 29. of june 1933, BKIW changed it's name to 'Berlin Karlsruher Industriewerke A.G., vormals Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken".

On the 30. of june 1936, the peacetime name was dropped and the company once again became 'Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken A.G.".

After World War 2, to make things a bit more complicated, the company was divided in two major segments. The Berlin branch remained active under the DWM name, but changed the name to 'Deutsche Waggon- und Maschinenfabriken Gmbh'. For a short period just after WW2 the Berlin branch operated under another name 'VWW' (Vereinigte Werkstatten Wittenau) as well.

The Karlsruhe (ammo) branch renamed itself 'Industriewerke Karlsruhe' (or IWK). Later, after the takeover of an Augsburg plant the name became IWKA (Industriewerke Karlsruhe Augsburg).

The association between DWM and ammunition was kept allive well into the 1960s.

DWM - Berlin later became part of ADtranz, a Daimler-Benz company that specializes in railroad equipment and was later taken over by Bombardier transport.

IWKA - Karlruhe also still exists and is particularly successfull in the packaging machine business.

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[MSO509]

What markings on the gun would prove that it is a BKIW? I am going to take pictures this week of all the markings and try to get them on the forum.

Thanks To All,

Mike

 

[MSO509]

Jan,
I was looking at the Eagle on your book Weimar Lugers and that is one of the Eagles on mine, next to it is the WaA66, and then looks like half an eagle like a misstamp. On the barrel the eagle there is a smaller version of the one on your book cover, all serial numbers match, even the two digit numbers on the smaller parts. The tool in the holster also has the matching serial number. Does this help any?

Mike Hanners

 

[Dwight Gruber]

quote:Originally posted by MSO509

What markings on the gun would prove that it is a BKIW? I am going to take pictures this week of all the markings and try to get them on the forum.

Thanks To All,

Mike

Mike,

There is -no- difference in production. BKIW has to do only with the corporate identity.

--Dwight

 

[MSO509]

Dwight,

Thanks, what about value?
Regards,
Mike

 

[MSO509]

I noticed that on all the pictures of the proof marks and ser. numbers that they are highlighted with a white substance, what are you using to white the numbers with?

Mike

 

[Edward Tinker]

Mike, first let me welcome you if I forgot!

The white is usually white grease pencil, or some special sticks you can buy from Brownells, my mind is blank, somethng sticks. Ron will remember and post it.

To determine exactly for a gun, you have to put all the pieces to the puzzle together, sometimes one proof with another means one year, another a another year. Fascinating...

Ed

 

[Dwight Gruber]

Mike,

At this juncture pictures, particularly closeups of the markings on the gun, magazines, and holster are needed.

--Dwight