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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello:

I am new to this site/forum so I hope I am submitting this posting in the right place and in the right way.

Also I have been having a bit of trouble navigating my way through this site, so some of the information I seek may be posted, I just have not been able to find it.

I own a 9mm P-08, I have had it for a number of years. I was told it was a German Police pistol and would like to find out if this is true. And also to find out whatever other information there is to know about it..

I will do my best to describe it to you. I have a number of good quality photos of the gun but as of right now, the file size is too large to post here but I am working on making them smaller and of course can e-mail them.

The over all condition of the gun is quite good. It is stamped DWM on the toggle. The number 1920 is stamped on the receiver(?), that is to say the top part of the upper body of the pistol right behind where the bbl screws in.

The gun has a 4 digit ser #, stamped in full, in 3 places on the gun. The locations are: the left side of the receiver above the take down latch, on the underside of the bbl where it screws into the receiver and on the front of the lower frame of the pistol above the front part of the trigger guard. The last 2 digits of this number are also stamped on all of the other parts of the gun, at least as far as I can tell from the basic take down I do.

Associated with the main ser #'s are the following: a small 'crown over N' stamp as well as an 'm' mark stamped in a sort of flowing style, more like writing rather than the printed style of the 'N'.

There is a small slot or notch cut into the left side to the lower body of the pistol. It is a vertical cut just a few mm long located directly above the top of the wooden grips in the area above the mag release button. This cut is made into the flat metal of that part of the frame, right where the top of the wood grip meets the bottom of that flat piece but it does not extend all the way up , just a few mm as mentioned.

Finally there is what I was told is a unit identifaction mark stamped on the front strap of the pistol grip. The mark consists of the following: L. P. Th. 753.

I would be happy to hear from anyone who can help me identify this pistol. I will try to visit this forum as often as possible to read any replies to this post. Any one who wishes to contact me directly is welcome to do so at [email protected]

Thanks
 

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Mike
The 1920 stamp (next to where the barrel screws in) is in a position that may indicate that it is a 1920 Reichswehr property stamp (not a date) stamped between late 1920 and early 1921 to indicate Reichswehr property. The serial number appears to be xxxm.

"There is a small slot or notch cut into the left side to the lower body of the pistol. It is a vertical cut just a few mm long located directly above the top of the wooden grips in the area above the mag release button." Based on your description a magazine safety was installed according to Prussian State Police orders dated 1933.

Also, a police stamp, L. P. Th. 753, was applied to the front strap.

Photographs would be very helpful in further identificing your Luger
Jan


Download Attachment: Krell P-08 Lft side.jpg
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Update 05/09/04. Thanks for the photograph. As stated, above the cut above the left grip indicates a removed magazine safety. A sear safety was also installed, but in is not evident above the side plate. It was removed. A drill hole in the receiver above the sear bar would indicate that it was once installed.

Based on your Lugers serial number, lack of a date (other than the 1920 property stamp)and C/N proof, I would estimate that your Luger was manufactured by DWM during 1916-1918 and reworked during the Weimar Era (date removed). It was stamped L. P. Th. 753. for a Weimar police unit during the Weimar Era. During the early Nazi Era a sear safety and magazine safety were installed.

Photographs of the area above the chamber would be helpful.
Jan
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hello:

I posted my ID question several days ago about the DWM police P-08 I have. I appreciate the replies I received. I think I have managed to reduce my photo files to a point where they are small enough to be postable to this site.

In fact, I have tried several times to post a sample photo but can't seem to figure out how to do it. I click the 'Insert image file' but just get a screen message saying I have to be logged in.. which I thought I was. So any help in that area would be nice. Thanks
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hello again:

Well I have been trying to figure out how to post a photo of my P-08. Several members have sent me messages making suggestions but so far no luck.

I have tried 'inserting an Image' funcation, using both the reply to topic and post a new topic options. In both cases when I click on the paper clip icon I just get a caution screen saying " You need to be logged in to use this page".

Perhaps my registration is imcomplete since I also seem to be unable to access certain parts of the site. In any case while I work on posting my pic if anyone wants to have a look at my gun they can send me an e-mail amd I will send a pic to them directly. My e-mail ady is [email protected] Thanks
 

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Download Attachment: Krell1.jpg
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Krell Luger 1.. Note: the C/N proofs on the receiver and breech block and the magazine safety hole on the frame.


Download Attachment: Krell2.jpg
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Krell Luger 2.: Note the Police unit stamp.

Download Attachment: Krell3.jpg
187.27 KB

Krell Luger 3. I would guess that the 1920 is a Reichswehr property stamp instead of a date stamp. It is closer to the barrel end than a standard date stamp. However, I am not certain.

The sear safety has been removed. The sear safety rivet hole is visable and the side plate is cut for the sear safety.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hello:

I see my most recently submitted photos have been posted... many thanks to Mr Still for taking the time to do this for me.

I also want to thank Mr Still and the others who have posted comments, the information provided is very interesting. I have learned more about this pistol in the past few days than I have in the 25 years I have owned it.

I should mention that I do have a number of other photos which I could send for posting, if anyone wishes to view them. These include a Right Side view, a photo of the back strap portion of the grip, a pic of the bottom side of the Bbl at the juncation of the Bbl and receiver showing the fill Ser. # and proof marks and others as well.

I am not sure if these various other views will offer further identifaction details but if anyone would like to see additional photos posted just let me know.

Thanks: Mike
 

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Mike
I would be very interested in seeing the right Side view to include any proof marks (if any exist on this side) and a pic of the bottom side of the Bbl at the juncation of the Bbl and receiver showing the fill Ser. # and proof marks. If you send them to me I will post them.
Thanks
Jan
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hello again:

I see Mr Still has been kind enough to post the last set of photos I sent. Once again I would like to thank him for his help.

I notice the Ser # for my gun is now listed as 9209 m. I assume this means the 'm', that is stamped close to two of the three full Ser#, is a production suffix? Is it unusual that there no 'm' associated with the full 4 digit Ser # stamped on the left side of the upper body?

I must say that I never associated the 'm' stamp with the Ser # before. I always assumed it was some sort of proof or acceptance mark. Interesting and interestinger.
 

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Krell, your guessing is correct.

The true serial number of your luger is 9209m, some years and models have the suffix on the barrel, such as yours and others do not. I do not believe that guns usually have the suffix on the left side (I believe never, but can't state that categorically).

Ed
 

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quote:Originally posted by Weimar_Police

Krell, your guessing is correct.

The true serial number of your luger is 9209m, some years and models have the suffix on the barrel, such as yours and others do not. I do not believe that guns usually have the suffix on the left side (I believe never, but can't state that categorically).

Ed
The true and full serial number of the luger appears on the front of the frame and is 9209m, not 9209. The suffix letter is often the most important piece of serial number information and it ommission causes a lot of confusion. Some luger owners have been accused of having someone else's luger because the other person failed to record the full serial number on, for example, a stolen property report.

There are a small number of lugers (in the early Weimar period--the two I have recently seen were both marked "1920") that have the letter on the left side of the receiver/chamber. Both examples I have recently observed were in the "a" letter block as marked on the left side with the rest of the serial number.

dave
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hello;

I have learned a lot about my P-08 since I posted my first message here. However what I have learned has also raised a few new questions.

For example, when it comes to Ser. # I would like to know how many of the different smaller parts ( as opposed to the frame, receiver body and bbl) should I be looking at for partial Ser # in order to determine if I have a 'matching' pistol.

Some of these smaller parts, such as the side plate and take down latch have the last 2 digits of the Ser # stamped in a quite visable
location once a basic take down is carried out.

But what about the other parts that are less visable during a basic take down. To determine if a P-08 has matching Ser #'s how extensive of a take down is needed ? Sould every part and little bit have a number?

What about grips? From reading other postings I see that grips can be made out of various materials and may ( should?) have a Ser # on them somewhere.

I recently removed the grips on my P-08 and had a good look at them. They are made of wood, are in good condition and have no marking of any kind on them. Is this typical or is it unusual?

My pistol has only one mag. It is a nice shiny all metal one with metal knobs or ears or whatever they are called at the bottom. There is no Ser. # or proofs on it that I can see. However it is stamped with an arrow which encloses the word "Haenel" and stamped beside the arrow are the words Schmeisser Patent. Is this a typical mag?

I should also mention that the action on my pistol does not stay open on an empty mag. Is this normal for a police P-08 ?

Thanks: Mike
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I have learned a lot about my pistol from the various replies that have been made to my postings but I am still trying to figure out a couple of things.

I have taken a closer look at the toggle of my pistol. Am I right in assuming it is made in three seperate parts pinned together?

Would this mean three parts each to have some sort of markings?

For example the toggle on my pistol does have the last two digits of the Ser # stamped on the rear most section of the toggle, the part that gets pinned to the upper frame. This can be seen in one of the pic I posted.

However these last two digits of the Ser# do not appear on the center and forward sections of the toggle.

The center section does have the DWM marking on the top and underneath it has what looks like single digit but its quite faint so I suppose it might just be an artifact or could it be one of those worker/production markings I have read about?

As for the forward section of the toggle is concerned I removed the firing pin and looked it over and it has no markings of any kind nor does that rather cone shaped retaining pin.

However on the lower right side of that forward section of the toggle right by where the firing pin slips into its channel there is a small stamping. It looks like a small circle with 2 well defined numbers inside. They do not match the Ser # in any way. Would this indicate a missmatched toggle assembly? Or could this also be a worker # ?

Thanks: MIke
 
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