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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys. Yes, I am new here and this is my first post but I joined for a few reasons. 1. To learn about lugers. 2. To hopefully buy my first.

I have tons of positive feedback on other forums but none here. I can provide links to my other accounts.

What I am looking for is my first luger. I would like something used during ww2, SF42 (from what I have found), with german military acceptance markings. I am not looking for an all-matching gun, I am looking for something that has been around and seen some use. I do not want to break the bank on my first purchase. Please message me with what you have and bear with me as I am sure I will have some questions.

Thanks
TTM556
 

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Hey guys. Yes, I am new here and this is my first post but I joined for a few reasons. 1. To learn about lugers. 2. To hopefully buy my first.

I have tons of positive feedback on other forums but none here. I can provide links to my other accounts.

What I am looking for is my first luger. I would like something used during ww2, SF42 (from what I have found), with german military acceptance markings. I am not looking for an all-matching gun, I am looking for something that has been around and seen some use. I do not want to break the bank on my first purchase. Please message me with what you have and bear with me as I am sure I will have some questions.

Thanks
TTM556
I am new to the Luger, but not to collecting (M1 Garand and M1 Carbine). I learned so much about firearms collecting through my 15 years plus of Garand and M1 Carbine collecting. Whatever you collect you will hear: “Buy the Book First”. That is sound advice but it doesn’t identify books from which which a new collector benefit. I’ll identify two books herein that I would recommend you purchase first.

A downside to the above advice is that it is difficult (at least for me) to learn much helpful information without an exemplar in front of me to which I can refer, match stamps, etc. To me it is just impossible to learn information relevant to your hobby in the abstract.

With my Lugers, I did not “buy the book 1st”. I came upon a really good deal on numerous pistols: Lugers, P.38s, Type 14 Nambu’s, others. I knew enough at that time that I was sure that if I lost interest in them I would not lose money (I mean I got a really really great deal). So I bought them, then started buying books to learn about them.
I have spent many hours just in the last 3 months studying these and learning about them, buying more books and learning more, etc.
Here is this novice collector’s recommendations:

1. Go ahead and buy “The Luger P.08 Vol. 1 The First Eorkd War and Weimar Years”, by Luc Guillou and George’s Machtelinckxx. Amazon has the book and it is not expensive.
I like this book because it provides a good overview of the Luger, it has wonderful pictures, good layout, and generally very accessible to a beginner, even if he doesn’t have a Luger in front of him to look at and reference as you read portions of interest. A llot can be learned from this volume since it is not overly technical.

2. Make a study of GunBroker Auctions (pending and completed). If you do this for a few weeks, and are reading the aforementioned book, you will internalize price points, why one sold for $1,000 and another sold for $3,000. Bounce from GB to Guns International, Simpson Ltd., Legacy Collectibles. You will find a full range of Lugers from strictly “shooter” grade to incredibly valuable. Again, bounce around these sights for a few weeks. At that time you will have a good idea of what is the right Luger and price point for you.

3. Buy one.

4. Buy “Standard Catalogue of Luger” by Aaron Davis.

5. When you get your Luger go to the “Standard Catalogue” and try to identify to which of about 200 types / variations you have . It’s not as easy as it sounds, and working through to identify your Luger will double your knowledge.

6. Where to Buy Your First Luger - Buy from Simpson Ltd, Legacy Collectibles, or some other establishment that is well known, deals in collectible firearms, and has a good reputation. You won’t get an incredible deal, but you will get a fair deal and a pistol you can have confidence is what the seller represents it to be.

7. Ask a moderator to move this thread to another sub-forum (new collectors?). The only people who are likely to see your thread in this WTB sub-forum, is someone trying to sell one. You should get much more input (I think) moving it to the new collector forum or similar.

8. Spend too much time on this forum. By this time (having done / doing steps 1-7), the random variety of questions, answers, topics, etc will trigger you to remember something you saw or read about previously, and then that information will stick with you.

9. Have Fun!!

Best regards,

JGW
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for the info. I am looking up those books as we speak. I will also keep an eye out on the auction sites for guns and what they sell for.

Thank you.
 

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Stay as far away from Davis's "Standard Catalog" as you can. It is full of errors and misinformation and it will steer you wrong. Review: "Standard Catalog of Luger" (long)

Buy a Luger first. Do not spend lot of money. If you are going into the hobby without preconception of your interest, it doesn't really make any difference what variation or condition you pick up.

Once you have your study object in hand, pore through these Forums and the Luger Forum for all the information relative to your Luger and to the interests you find yourself developing. The Forums comprise the most current information about Lugers avalable. Eventually you will discover where your interests lie, and recommendations for specific books (and Luger variations) will become pertinent to you.

That being said, there are two useful "beginner's" books. "Lugers At Random" by Charles Kenyon is still the best general catalog of Lugers available. It is more than 50 years old and somewhat out-of-date, but it is still the most comprehensive and useful general Luger hobby book ever written. John Walters's "The Luger Story" is the best general history of the Luger. It is non-technical and a good read. Do not start witth the oft-recommended, massive Görtz/Sturgesss "Borchardt & Luger" tome. It is a graduate-studies-level text, and without a solid background of Luger knowledge you will find yourself completely lost.

--Dwight
 

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Stay as far away from Davis's "Standard Catalog" as you can. It is full of errors and misinformation and it will steer you wrong. Review: "Standard Catalog of Luger" (long)

Buy a Luger first. Do not spend lot of money. If you are going into the hobby without preconception of your interest, it doesn't really make any difference what variation or condition you pick up.

Once you have your study object in hand, pore through these Forums and the Luger Forum for all the information relative to your Luger and to the interests you find yourself developing. The Forums comprise the most current information about Lugers avalable. Eventually you will discover where your interests lie, and recommendations for specific books (and Luger variations) will become pertinent to you.

That being said, there are two useful "beginner's" books. "Lugers At Random" by Charles Kenyon is still the best general catalog of Lugers available. It is more than 50 years old and somewhat out-of-date, but it is still the most comprehensive and useful general Luger hobby book ever written. John Walters's "The Luger Story" is the best general history of the Luger. It is non-technical and a good read. Do not start witth the oft-recommended, massive Görtz/Sturgesss "Borchardt & Luger" tome. It is a graduate-studies-level text, and without a solid background of Luger knowledge you will find yourself completely lost.

--Dwight
Dwight, thank you letting me know about “Standard Catalogue”. I had no idea it is problematic. While I thought it to be an accurate resource, I should have delved into reviews of the book before recommending it. Perhaps my recommendation confirms my self acknowledged status as a new collector as well!

Even if it should not be relied upon due to numerous errors, perhaps it is still a good resource to use as an exercise to try to identify a new collector’s new Luger? I was exposed to a lot about Lugers generally and the various minutia that exists in collecting it, markings, etc. I don't remember any particular fact I read, but it forced me to look at the different identifying marks, stamps, etc, learn some terminology, learn some of the issues, etc. Working with the “Standard Catalogue” added to my working knowledge of how to approach a Luger, what to look for, etc. It’s a shame the “Standard Catalogue” isn’t reliable for actual identification of a particular Luger.

Thank you also for the book recommendations. I’ve seen “Lugers at Random” several times, but haven’t bought a copy yet. I expect that will change soon.

Bestregards,

JGW
 

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Hello TTM556:

Good luck on your hunt.

You may want to propose a budget and see what members may be able to offer for that price. At least get a matching gun (grips and mag optional) with a good+ bore.

You said you wanted a WW2 pistol---since you are on a budget you may want to consider reworked/reissued WW1 or 1929-1930 made sneak pistols-they also served in WW2 and so much before-they are full of history-also often much better values than only-WW2 pistols.

I started-in my latest return to Luger collecting 5 years ago-with a BYF 41-you could say was made at the high water mark of the Germans in WW2. I already had a 1944 BYF P38 so there is a connection and you can demonstrate how Mauser went from one to the other. Then I got a DWM 1917, the basic WW1 model with straw colors.

I followed up with a 1970s Interarms Luger new in the box, then a 1941 Swiss M29 which connects to the same-year 1941 Luger (if memory serves the factories only 90 miles apart) and the Interarms Luger which is based on the M29 Swiss.

I'll attach a photo when I had 3 Lugers, before the M29.

You get the point-you probably did it with other guns-start and then grow with related items.

One of my favorite searches in "Mauser Luger" on Gun Broker, link below, but be careful.

Best Wishes, Joe


01 4x6.jpg
 

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I moved this to the New Collector area.
I own Aaron's book, its free as a pdf (not sure how legally that worked out) - it is '''fine''' but don't rely on it for accurate markings, or amounts made, etc. The sections on Simson Lugers is very basic OLD information. As Dwight said - don't rely on it.
There are several threads on BOOK Reviews in the book review section.
Cheaper but good books - Walters book, its readable (the encyclopedia one, not so much), Jones and then Datig, both old and outdated, but still good info in them.
Then you start getting into new books and you should know more what you want to collect in.

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks.

I am looking to spend around 1000 bucks for my first one. I am open to options and suggestions but I don't need anything specific. Just looking for something with a nice bore that shoots fine.
 

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Not impossible - just don't get in a rush - if you visit pawn shops, local gun shops, etc, lugers seem rare, but there are hundreds of thousands in the USA.
Patience - although a shooter and one that shoots can be different beasts (mixed parts). An east german or russian capture is an excellent start, or a reblued WW2 era. Patience is the best thing - check here on the forum, check gunbroker, but its something that is sometimes hard to find, but you will.
 
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The problem with dedicated shooter Luger (say, mismatched, or refurbished, or rebarraled etc) - it is not cheap either. Relatively speaking, it is actually very expensive for that condition.

You may want to get a postwar 9mm Mauser Parabellum. Nice original one is not much higher than $1000. It works great.
 

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I agree with Alvin, better to learn and keep an eye out-find a deal on a nice gun rather than quickly buying something you want to replace.

Below is a link to page 8 of Simpson Ltd's "Luger" category arranged by ascending price-you can see Lugers starting at $1395. Just keep on page by page and see what you can get for your money. (Simpson is the largest dealer, I have bought several Lugers from them-also see their great videos.)

Alvin-I collect Mauser Parabellums but never shot one. I heard the grips get loose-has that happened to you? Have you shot both calibers?

Joe


0 eight Lugers.jpg pair of 30 cal Interarms Lugers.jpg
 

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Alvin-I collect Mauser Parabellums but never shot one. I heard the grips get loose-has that happened to you? Have you shot both calibers?
I fired pistols with "Swiss style" grip and "German style" grip, all 9mm. A German style one had grip panel broken while I shot it (interior side). Postwar Luger grip panel has a small hole on it fitting a pin on grip frame to keep the panel in place. But that hole is very close to an interior edge on wood panel, so that wood hole is fragile. When that wood hole is broken , the panel is movable. I fired three samples, one Swiss style and one German style shot without any issue, but another German style had that wood hole broke after I fired about 100 rounds.
 

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I fired pistols with "Swiss style" grip and "German style" grip, all 9mm. A German style one had grip panel broken while I shot it (interior side). Postwar Luger grip panel has a small hole on it fitting a pin on grip frame to keep the panel in place. But that hole is very close to an interior edge on wood panel, so that wood hole is fragile. When that wood hole is broken , the panel is movable. I fired three samples, one Swiss style and one German style shot without any issue, but another German style had that wood hole broke after I fired about 100 rounds.
Thank you, I will keep this in mind if I decide to shoot one.
PS: TTM556-Alvin just said the Swiss version grips held up well-I may be able to put something together for you in a circa-1972 unfired 9mm Swiss-style Mauser Parabellum but it would be at least $1200 plus shipping, of course you need an FFL to receive it. You could be the first to shoot your Luger since test firing at the factory, then report back to us how it went. (I also heard the grips, sharply checkered and a bit oversize, bite into your hands.)
I'm not keen on selling stuff, feel free to keep looking, Joe
3 Mauser Parabellums.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks appreciate it.

The reason I am interested in one is I am a history buff. Owning something from ww2 is my goal. I really want to find one from that time peroid.
 

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WWII is a preference. Back a while ago, I had a pair of postwar Mauser commemoratives, one was a 9mm Russian, another one was a 7.65mm Bulgarian, both were stone mint NIBs. I told my son “these two will be given to you". When he heard these were not WWII, he asked "why did you buy them..." Actually, I doubt he would have interest even if those were WWII or WWl, but since he expressed that attitude, I decided to sell those two.

The buyer was obviously a collector. When he received the items, he complained the postwar magazine had hairline crack on black plastic bottom. It was my ignorance, I should have warned him that many of those postwar magazines were out of factory like that. Due to that, I gave him some discount.

That is a postwar story. Probably due to cost reduction pressure, it has a few "cut corner" features, such as previously mentioned grip panel, and this plastic magazine bottom. If put those two issues aside, I have no other complaints on postwar design and making.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Would anyone be willing to help me out with a potential purchase? Id and price .

If so, please pm me.
Thanks
 

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If you have pictures, post it here. There are many Luger collectors in the forum, they would help you.

I would suggest avoiding those "shooter only" Luger. Plain original 4" Luger is not a very cheap item, but it is not a very expensive one either... It falls into category of "medium valued handgun". Around 2k to 2.5k, you can get a very nice original WWII one. If short on budget, not in hurry, save money and wait. There are plentiful number of Luger's on market, you are not chasing any rare variation, it should be easy to get one when money is ready.
 

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I suggest you start a thread in the WTB section of the two Luger web forums. Also consider joining Proxibid, there are often pistols in your price range at auction. Gunbroker is also an option. I see solid shooters/low end collectible WWII era military P 08s in $900-$1,200 range regularly, but it is variable - nothing for weeks or even a month or two, then suddenly there are several. Patience is key.

Edit: a quick check of Proxibid shows several WWII era PO8s with finish/refinish or other small issues that may go around your $1,000 mark, good luck.
 

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In addition to the books you're looking at, I suggest you download, study and keep nearby a copy of our forum's FAQ document.


It's free to download, but has a much higher value with reference information collected over years from forum members.
 
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