More photos.

 

 

So, let's add it up:
No prefix early Radom in nice shape: $1500- 1700
Polish prewar holster $1750-$2000
2 Polish eagle mags at $300 each
Cleaning rod - $300-400? if original.
I think you did fairly good...

 

If I recall they did issue the Polish Radom holsters but at a very low extent. And most were dyed black. But exceptions are always around.

 

Very nice and original polish mags and holster(close ups of rod would be nice to verify originality).Missing loop is proper ,so is barrel in blue in your early prealpha gun.Now you need a Polish Eagle and a German holster.It never stops!Congratulations.Regards Kris

 

With all due respect to Kris, after all these years, I'd leave it like it is.

 

Nice catch! And judging from your last picture you got more then one! Full Polish rig I presume with 1938, cleaning rod and 3 Polish marked mags? Would you mind describing the markings on the cleaning rod or was it on the forum before?
Early pre alphabet with correct mag (yours seems to be early German made) can be more then $2000 so your catch is a really good one! I have a very similar one, serial 1908 with no loop and blued barrel which suggests possible KM use. Early ones up to around serial number 2000 all display same characteristics.
But as Kris said get another eagle for the holster and another German holster for your newest Radom
On the other hand there is little wear typical for Polish holster on the trigger guard and grip so maybe those two were together for some time....
There are pictures showing German soldiers wearing Polish holsters like one from polar circle in Norway just what was inside?

 

Szanowny Panie Michale,
Never mind I found your previous posts about cleaning rod and Eagle rig!

 

all I can say is wow! nice rig...I don't have a Radom yet in my collection. just now reading up on them, but I have read enough to know you got a nice one. and rig to boot! Congrats

 

Ech, farciarz...

You did very good, but that would be the first time I have heard about a German Radom being issued with Polish rig. Mind you, rigs were completed at the depos, not at the factory - so where would they still have a stash of Polish holsters with all items in 1941, when the early prealfas were manufactured? Anyway, there are rigs of prealfa as early as under s/n 1000 - and all in black-dyed German Radom holsters, with or w/o E/M stamp. The only Germanized rigs I've seen were captured in 1939, and then painted black or even (God have probably punished the scoundrel) cut to resemble German Koffertasche. Judging from the photos, most captured holsters were worn left intact, but there are several of these dyed black known in circulation. I rather think this was a Polish holster with mags and cleaning rod, that someone put a pistol afterwards, probably post war. Polish pistol? Put into Polish holster - now it's hanky-dory. Note that the pistol itself has a correct, original early German stampless magazine - it's the holster that has a pair of G2s. Anyway, a nice catch.

All the best,
Leszek

 

I meant this picture of German soldier with Polish holster strapped to his belt, caption says 1940, Norway.
It is shown in York's book with caption stating provided by Waclaw Ustupski but internet search shows it as well and that is the picture I attached. Anybody knows where is the original print?

 

Marek,
This is a German press agency photo, sent all over the world and I know of a handful of prints in different archives. The (heavily painted over) copy you mentioned actually comes from the Polish National Digital Archive, signature 2-451(http://www.audiovis.nac.gov.pl/obraz/1116/62cfbacb7e75229f3ed6633c9d7760a2/) and was licensed for use to me for my articles in Strzal Gun Magazine, then I regrettably shared a small-res copy with Mr Ustupski for display at his medal-winning show in Ohio - whereupon Mr Ustupski has chosen to give it to Mr York without my knowledge or consent, as virtually all the vintage photos and blueprints printed in that book and sourced to Mr Ustupski - while in fact coming from my collection. Same thing with the late war Znojmo production documentation, which also comes from my collection (a set of digital photocopies from the Czech Regional Archive) which I lent to Mr Ustupski 'for closer look' (that's several hundred pages of documents, difficult to read in one evening) and which was then also used in York book without my knowledge or consent - while sourced to Mr Ustupski, adding an insult to injury. Years and years of my work were thus misappropriated and all I got in return was a one-liner in credits - with a spelling error to boot. The persons involved didn't even think of sending me a copy of the book which without my research would have remained just another catalog of pistols from various collections.

Anyway, the photo was widely reproduced in newspapers and book ever since 1940, and the prints are quite numerous - I have seen actual prints in Warsaw, Prague and Ljubljana archives, and I'd be very surprised if they do not have it at the German Bundesarchive.

 

Mr. Visniewski, You seem to be very knowledgeable on these Radoms. You made a good point as to "the Rigs were assembled at the factory and then said where would they have a stash of Polish Holsters with all the items in 1941" couldn't they have still been at the factory as left over parts? No guns were manufactured in between the time the last Polish pistol was made and the first German made. I cant believe that they only had 1 holster or even just enough Magazines manufactured for the amount of gun parts they had. I found something similar with the French 1935A. the early German French made 35A's seemed to be matched with left over French Magazines and the French Mle holster. mine of course being then modified by the Germans. the modification on my holster had been attributed to a soldier doing it but found another one on this board that looked Identical which lead me to believe it was done at a depot. I know you stated you have seen rigs under the 1000 serial with the holster dyed black, so clearly there must have been Polish holsters lying around. Now I do agree, at that time in history I now question as to would a German not at least cross out the Polish markings on the holster since they believed them to be inferior people? interesting...like I posted earlier I don't have a Radom in my collection yet. I'm just now reading up on them and learning. Thanks for your input here. and don't feel too bad about your story and the photo. I had something similar happen to me. I had a rare archive of a Civil War journal that I sent to the curator of one of our Battlefield Museums. He wanted to buy it but I declined. I just wanted some additional information on it. about 7 years later I found out he wrote a book and was using qoutes from my unpublished manuscript.

 

Mr. Visniewski, You seem to be very knowledgeable on these Radoms. You made a good point as to "the Rigs were assembled at the factory and then said where would they have a stash of Polish Holsters with all the items in 1941" couldn't they have still been at the factory as left over parts?

I know you stated you have seen rigs under the 1000 serial with the holster dyed black, so clearly there must have been Polish holsters lying around.

Sam,
I did NOT wrote the rigs were assembled at the factory, quite the opposite in fact: "Mind you, rigs were completed at the depos, not at the factory - so where would they still have a stash of Polish holsters with all items in 1941, when the early prealfas were manufactured?"
Also, I did not wrote I have seen Germanized rigs with prealfa under 1000, quite the opposite in fact: "Anyway, there are rigs of prealfa as early as under s/n 1000 - and all in black-dyed German Radom holsters, with or w/o E/M stamp."

Try to clear your minds of any misconceptions and read my post again, please: usage of Polish holsters was an exception, not the rule, and mostly applied to holsters captured in combat, not issued. The blackened POLISH holsters are even more rare than the tan ones, which means they were far from numerous. And the earliest prealfa rig I know is s/n 225 - the holster is typical German Radom holster with pull strap, thick leather, painted black outside, with "P.35(p)" rubber stamp inside flap for all markings.

You have my full sympathy with the Civil War diaries - yeah, I know that pain. All the best with your Radom quest - post the photos when you finally get one. Now, as far as crossing the markings - these were the military acceptance marks, a QC certificate, and no one deleted these lightly. The same went the other way - German WaA stamps were also left intact. The other markings were also left mostly intact: there is a sprinkling of Polish Eagle slides used with prealfas at around the s/n 10000 mark - even then the Polish Eagle was not defaced (as the Mum was deleted from Japanese Arisakas), the German legend ("P.35(p.)") was just added, as well as the WaAs - Zorro has one of these. Same story with the captured Mauser 98 receivers - the early German rifles assembled with Polish parts had their eagles intact, even if topped with "660" Steyr code instead of FB RADOM.

 

Thank you guys for all great info! I knew that it was good catch - especially all Polish accessories like holster - mags and cleaning rod.
As I mentioned, I have quite legit story to this rig, and I believe that this is how it came from war.
Basing on Leszeks great knowledge in this subject I have doubts that it been issued like that, especialy if there is no other known examples.

I think that I will put this pistol in one of Nazi holsters that I have , and will find nice 1937 or 1939 Polish eagle to complete Polish RIG. If I will ever decide to sell it I will put this back as I got it - to keep history alive at some point.

Today I got my self another Polish beauty Ng30 - I will post new thread regarding this pistol soon,

Best regards.

Michal

 

But Michal,

You already have a nice 1938 Vis to complete that rig - or you got another to go with it?

 

Leszek, 1938 Vis that I have already has nice holster and all correct accessories
I am hoping to put together another Polish eagle Rig - it will be nice to have 2 Polish rigs.

I will let you know once I will find another Radom - I hope for 1937 or 1939.

I also did not forgot about pictures for you, but recently have very little free time to focus on that.

Best.

Michael

 

I also did not forgot about pictures for you, but recently have very little free time to focus on that.

Best.

Michael

Never mind if only you use the time thus saved for finding such beauties
L