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I came across this gun and noticed the Iron Eagle insignia on the gun and holster. I'm just wondering if any of you would be able to help me pinpoint whether this is authentic or not.

lugar #1.jpg Lugar #2.jpg Lugar #3.jpg Lugar #5.jpg Lugar #6.jpg Lugar #7.jpg Lugar#4.jpg
 

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The stamps on the gun and holster look original but the gun looks reblued and the grips are replacements. Also, there is no way to be sure it belonged to Nazi officer.
 

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How does one define a 'nazi' gun?
I don't believe you can- most soldiers did not belong to the Nazi Party.

If the OP means a pistol issued during the time of Hitler as Chancellor or Fuerher, that would be dates known.
The pistol shown has been highly polished and re-blued, I can't make out the last digit of the year.
 

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The luger is standard military from the 3rd Reich period. There are very few guns that can be conclusively associated with "Nazi" and those are not lugers. There are a few political party-marked pistols that can confidently be linked to a Nazi party member but probably not to a specific person. Lugers were commonly issued to soldiers who would be in combat situations.

This specific luger has been polished and reblued after it was manufactured and issued to the military, most likely long after WW2 here in the US. The wood grip panels are recent replacements. The holster has had the front panel cut down slightly and looks like it was coated with some shiny finish. The holster is typical of what would have held this luger when it was in service during WW2.

Both the luger and holster are authentic to the 3rd Reich period and the German military, with the exception of the grips (and possibly the magazine and internal parts--no way to tell from the photos). Both are altered from original condition when in military use.
 

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Nice pistol, regardless of the refinish.
 

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How does one define a 'nazi' gun?
Using the term "Nazi" in reference to a weapon has always bothered me. The word refers to a political party. Have you ever heard of a weapon being referred to a Republican or Democrat gun? It does not make much since and in a way shows a lack of understanding.

Referring to a weapon from a time period or era makes much more since. i.e.; Civil war era, WWI era, WWII or 3rd Reich era...etc.

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Jeffrey,

Welcome to the Forum

The Model P.08 was the standard issue sidearm of the German Forces from 1908 to 1938 when the P.38 was adopted. It then became the alternate sidearm. From a practical standpoint, since P.38 production started slowly, it was 1940 or later, that the P.38 was produced in volume. In 1940, the Heereswaffenamt required that guns and holsters be marked with either P.08 or P.38 to avoid confusion.

Although of little value as a collectible, I do believe your gun is a Model P.08 as issued to the German Army, Navy and Airforce. Some were also diverted from the Military to the Police. Your particular gun was made late in 1937. November. Maybe December. Over 127,000 Model P.08s were made by Mauser that year with the vast majority going to the Army, all but about 500 or so. Your holster was made in 1941. Thus it is marked with the P.08 stamp.

The droop Eagles on the right side of the receiver are First and Second Stage inspection marks. The last mark is a proof mark also found on the barrel and the breechblock. Note: P.08s were typically issued to members of crew operated weapons, non-commissioned officers and company grade officers. Field grade and flag officers typically armed themselves with smaller sidearms. I doubt that a senior officer ever voluntarily carried a Luger.

I have no idea why the holster and gun were modified/improved, but perhaps the pistol was in bad shape and was repaired/restored or perhaps someone just wanted a shiny gun. Who knows? For sure, it never left the factory that way.

Hope this helps.

John
 

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Welcome to the forum. If you're thinking of acquiring the pistol, be aware that the refinishing has destroyed it's collector interest and thus a considerable portion of it's financial value.

The holster modification and finish have also reduced collector interest and value there.

If you already own it, it's a shooter category Luger if it functions properly. These 1938 Mauser made Luger pistols make excellent shooters.

If by "Iron Eagle Insignia" you're referring to the WaffenAmt and proof stamps, those are likely authentic. I can't make out the detail in your photos. Inspector 195 was active at Karl Bocker in 1944.

WaA195epfKarl BöckerWaldbröhl, Rhld.1944
WaA195epfKarl BöckerBrng. Hp Hol.Waldbröhl, Rhld.1941-42 (kann auch eqf sein)

You'll probably enjoy reading the material collected in our FAQ PDF document on this site.


Marc
 

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I was a little reluctant to post on this thread. I don't like to give away all my trade secrets, but I knows I can trust yous guys not to tell. The surest way to find out if a gun is a Nazi gun is to grasp it firmly and walk across the room. If you break into a goose step, it's definitely a Nazi gun. Works on Mauser 98's, too. Now remember, I don't want to see this posted on the internet.
Pat
 

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I can't make out the last digit of the year.
Enlarging the photo, it is a 1937 date. A Nazi 'era' production, but as stated, not possible to associate directly with a Party Member.

As refinished, most ardent collectors would shy away if offered for sale, other than for shooter purposes. But still a legitimate period piece to the more casual collector. Enjoy!
 

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Pat,
Interesting "secret litmus test".
I tried your "walk" test with my British .455 Webley revolver. My upper lip got stiff. But other than that, my walk was like a stroll in Hyde Park with a rolled umbrella.
 

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Ned,

Did you get a craving for tea and crumpets. I know after all that goose stepping, I get a craving for sauerbraten und beer.
I know how to tell if it was an officers gun, but as I said, I'm not giving all my secrets away.
Pat
 

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I think of any German gun made between 33 and 45 as a Nazi gun and shy away from them because of their associations with the regime however decent some of the unfortunates forced to fight for it might have been (and some I have known personally) so to me, JLART, a 37 Luger is a Nazi gun as would be any K98, P38, MG34 und so weiter.
On a lighter note (and we are in danger of hijacking your thread) Bayoned should try the same test with a Smith and Wesson .455 and he'll find a delicate moustache sprouting from that stiff upper lip and he'll speak with a clipped accent saying things like "Good show, chaps, we knocked Jerry for six". This is because I'm sure English gentlemen (and I speak as one) with their smooth hands would always prefer the small grips, refinement and smooth trigger pull of an S & W .455 to one of those coarse Webleys.

Mike
 

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Ned, I think with a Colt New service .455 you would start eating peas with your knife, slurp tea from a saucer and be looked down upon as a mere temporary gentleman. Perhaps we should start a new thread on this topic. Colt NSs need large hands with long trigger fingers. I find it difficult to get my quite long finger round the trigger of a New Service. Siegfried Sassoon writes of his "clumsy Colt" which he replaced with a Browning FN 1900. An odd direction to go in but he was there.

Mike
 
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