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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Data (listed below) suggests that earlier police accepted Behörden-Modells were marked with a 6-sided diamond (hexagon) and later ones were marked with a 4-sided diamond (rhombus)

Which police unit(s) may have used these distinctly different acceptance markings? (eg, SA-Feldjäger-Korps which was formed 31-October-1933 and later, on 1-April-1935, incorporated into Prussian Schutzpolizei both employed a 6-sided diamond on uniforms and accessories). Was there a reason for the change from a 6 to a 4-sided diamond and if so, what was that reason?

This research requires more data, thus it is greatly appreciated if you would kindly please post (or PM me if confidential) close-up pictures of the diamond acceptance mark, serial number and details of any other markings of your police-accepted JP Sauer & Sohn Behörden-Modell pistols

Here is a close-up image of these two distinctly different shapes inside the Prussian-police starburst (aka "sunburst") acceptance mark:



Note how the shape of the wall plaque in this Prussian police radio station, and Brandenburg horse mounted flags, pictures resembles the 6-sided diamond acceptance mark and thus perhaps provides a clue as to its meaning:



Jim Cate has is aware of at least 56 diamond-in-starburst marked Behörden-Modells. Here are the [only 20] data points as of this moment.
Note: all observed diamond-in-starburst B-M's have "adjustable" (see "Bild 1." image below) not "fixed" front sights.

And the "score" is:
TEN 6-sided diamonds
-to-
TEN 4-sided diamonds:

213947 - 6-sided diamond
214052 - 6-sided diamond
214202 - 6-sided diamond
214568 - 6-sided diamond
214600 - 6-sided diamond
214637 - 6-sided diamond
214666 - 6-sided diamond
214845 - 6-sided diamond
215030 - 6-sided diamond
------------------------------
215228 - 4-sided diamond
215729 - 4-sided diamond
215748 - 4-sided diamond
215769 - 4-sided diamond
215794 - 4-sided diamond
215844 - 6-sided diamond (a "flyer" ?)
215921 - 4-sided diamond
216304 - 4-sided diamond
216693 - 4-sided diamond
216764 - 4-sided diamond (M30, not BM)
216802 - 4-sided diamond



Two different B-M acceptance-inspectors existed contemporaneously: note overlap of K-in-starburst and diamond-in-starburst markings:

  • lowest */K 213944 and highest */K 214833] compared with
  • lowest */<> 213947 and highest overlap */<> 214666
 

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Doug, could you specify in your list which ones have 4 or 6 sides
 

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#216693 has a four (4) sided elongated diamond. I suspect these are a case of two different dies in use at the same time by two different Prussian Police inspectors or sub-inspectors.
 

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It is greatly appreciated if you would kindly please post (or PM me) close-up pictures of the diamond acceptance mark and serial number of your JP Sauer & Sohn Behördenmodell pistols.....................The shape of the wall plaque in this German police radio station picture resembles the 6-sided diamond acceptance mark and thus perhaps provides a clue as to its meaning:..........
You have read the two volumes on the Sauer pistols? You do realize the photo you provided was not just a "German police radio station.." but in fact a Prussian police radio facility and the "shape of the wall plaque" was the official insignia of the Prussian police? The diamond acceptance marks were used by the Prussian police acceptance officers and found in variations on Prussian police weapons and holsters.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Dear Roy666, do you have any idea what the 4-sided diamond " <> " symbol may have signified? I absolutely do need to spend a lot more quality time with Jim Cate's (and his co-authors') excellent books ..... that's a work in progress and a labor of love! Thanks for your post - if Google seems slower in the near future, that may be me pounding the digital highway looking for Prussian or perhaps some other state's police information, like maybe Freistaat Lippe <here; thanks Martin!>
 

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Dear Roy666, do you have any idea what the 4-sided diamond " <> " symbol may have signified? I absolutely do need to spend a lot more quality time with Jim Cate's (and his co-authors') excellent books ..... that's a work in progress and a labor of love! Thanks for your post - if Google seems slower in the near future, that may be me pounding the digital highway looking for Prussian or perhaps some other state's police information, like maybe Freistaat Lippe <here; thanks Martin!>
Schupo's explanation below here is the most logical. The acceptance stamps are in different form on pistols, flare guns, bayonets and other equipment.

#216693 has a four (4) sided elongated diamond. I suspect these are a case of two different dies in use at the same time by two different Prussian Police inspectors or sub-inspectors.
 

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Dear Roy666, do you have any idea what the 4-sided diamond " <> " symbol may have signified? I absolutely do need to spend a lot more quality time with Jim Cate's (and his co-authors') excellent books ..... that's a work in progress and a labor of love! Thanks for your post - if Google seems slower in the near future, that may be me pounding the digital highway looking for Prussian or perhaps some other state's police information, like maybe Freistaat Lippe <here; thanks Martin!>
Have you ever seen the acceptance mark on a flare pistol?

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?28135-Interesting-JPS-Police-Marked-Behorden&highlight=prussian
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
retropox and SCHUPO thanks very much for your information.

bruno38 and retropox your suggestion is a good one, thank you both. So we may all share the results, I have updated the list to show which s/n's have a 6 vs. 4 sided diamond

roy666 thanks for your knowledgeable and helpful insights. Your comment about the Prussian police connection is correct - I have updated the text above to reflect your good information. Your flare gun’s mark indeed appears to be (more like a 4-sided than a 6-sided to me) diamond in sunburst.

Everyone else, please post your pictures !! There are at least 35 more Behördenmodells-diamonds out there

Doug
 

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Here's my s/n 215748 - 4-sided diamond (already listed above)

_DSC5338.jpg _DSC5343.jpg
 

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Why was this thread moved to the Imperial section? These pistols were not manufactured during the 1900-1918 time frame.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks SCHUPO, the problem's now fixed. My fault: I knew better (and so did the Administrators) yet had given them the wrong sub-forum anyway.
 

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Thanks SCHUPO, the problem's now fixed. My fault: I knew better (and so did the Administrators) yet had given them the wrong sub-forum anyway.
We all make mistakes. Frequently my typing fingers move quicker than my brain does. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
bruno38, thank you for your pictures

What I am noticing is that the outer diameter of the sunburst of 4-sided diamond stamps appears smaller than 6-sided diamond stamps

Maybe someone has an idea how to measure this (?)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Here's one way to measure.
I am getting 3mm for the six-sided diamond stamp and only 2.75mm for the four-sided diamond stamp.
Never realized I need a better ruler until today.
What say you?

measure-215030.jpg measure-216802.jpg
 

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Two different dies for sure, but (to me: no matter the size), question remains: who is/are behind each diamond?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Bruno, I agree with you that we would like to know "who is/are behind each diamond"

..... Please forum members, guests, etc, please pull out your Behördenmodells and contribute to this study (see details in first post of this thread)

Today added a "new" data point to the tally above: s/n 215228 a 4-sided-diamond illustrated on page 179 of Cate & Van Gijn Volume One (thanks Jim and Nico !)
 

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Data (listed below) suggests that earlier police accepted Behördenmodells were marked with a 6-sided diamond and later ones were marked with a 4-sided diamond (hexagon and rhombus)

Which police units may have used these distinctly different acceptance markings? (eg, Feldjäger-Korps which was formed 31-October-1933 and later, on 1-April-1935, incorporated into Prussian Schutzpolizei both employed a 6-sided diamond on uniforms and accessories). Was there a reason for the change from a 6 to a 4-sided diamond and if so, what was that reason?
Do you have any evidence that any of these Prussian police accepted Sauer BH in the roughly 213xxx-216xxx range were actually used by the Feldjägerkorps? The only Sauer BHs known to me to be marked for the FJK are in the K in Star accepted BH range just before the polygon in Star range.
 
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