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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can anybody help me by translating the Hebrew letters on a 3 lined Stoeger I have here?
The last character left is stamped over a Crown/N proofmark.
Any help is greatly appreciated!

A dark picture:
Download Attachment: Hebr-TextD.jpg
31.62KB

And a brighter one:
Download Attachment: Hebr-Text.jpg
57.06KB

Thanks for looking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ron,

Thank you for this table - I know that I should read the line from right to left.
But even when I can more or less pronounce it, I still do not know what it means... It has something to do with the organization that used this Luger between 1936 and 1948.
 

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Joop, I am having trouble reading the letters from the picture. If you tell me what letters they are using Ron's chart, I can probably translate it or get help who can. You can use the Hebrew names of the letters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Heinz, I tried but it seems that the characters used are 'stylized' (no curves). I also tried to read the text upside down - it still does not make sence. It is one of those puzzles...
 

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I just sent the pics to an Israeli friend to decipher. He said most of the letters are undecipherable, but it looks possibly like "shanun", a word which has no meaning. I will next have it looked at by a former Israeli army officer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Aaron,
Thank you for doing this for me; it is highly appreciated!
This 3 lined Stoeger went to the Electric Company of Palestine (now of Israel) back in 1937 or 1938. I have a few more of these, but this is the only pistol that has a marking. It might be that these characters point to the E.C.P., but that might be easy thinking...
 

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Joop, this may be "H Tsgn" corected to left to right flow. the n and s are fairly certain. If the first letter standing slightly to the Right has three vertical bars then it would be a stylized S as Arron noted. Vowels are probably not present in this acronym, but in modern Hebrew, especially at the time this may have been stamped, anything is possible.

If Arron has a friend in the Army, you may get a definitive reply.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Heinz,
Thank you for looking at my Hebrew puzzle. In fact the character at the right is composed of "|||"; the white pencil did not fill out the most right line. One of our members (Doug Wirt) drew my attention to the fact that in Costanzo's WOL book page 204 #165 a Hebrew marking is given for the arms that went to Isreal due to actions of the Hadassah organization (1952-1956). There is indeed some resemblance, but the time scedule is not fitting. This Luger came to Palestine in 1937-1938; but it is indeed not certain that it got this stamp at that moment.
Let us wait and see if Aaron's friend has the solution to this marking.
 

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Joop,My Israeli friend thinks it's a person's name-- the first letter is probably shin; the last few letters she thinks spells "Vanshanef" or something like that--eg, a first initial and a last name. Or it could be an illegible saying that she can't make out. That's her best guess.
If this is a person's name, it could help to explain why only the one was marked as belonging to or used by that person, with the others being unmarked.
Hope this doesn't add too much confusion.

Joe
 

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Just received the following comment from my Israeli officer friend:

"It appears there are two words, reading from right to left. the first one is cut off. the second means ..."and weapon" (can also be in plural). In hebrew it is Va NESHEK. Ve or Va is the word... and. Vav Nun Shin Kof.
It appears the Kof is placed on top of an english N."

Also, he wishes us all a happy Passover and Easter holiday!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Joe, Aaron,

It seems that the suggestions of knowledgable insiders are pointing towards a personal name or title that was stamped on this 3 lined Stoeger somewhere after 1937. Also from other sources I learned that Hebrew, especially during the first decennia of the last century, was written in many 'free forms', mostly while ommitting the vowels. When there are small marks (','',''') the vowel can be determined but in this case any vowel is possible.

Aaron's Army friend is right, the last (left) character is stamped over the 'N' of the DWM Crown/N commercial proofstamp.

Please pass my gratitude to your friends that took the time to help me decipher this puzzle; they were really very helpful. This is a great forum indeed...

And yes; a happy Passover and Easter holidays to all of you!
 

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Joop, looking through the Luger Book by Walter I saw an Israeli stamping on page 136 that may relaate to your pistol. Walter interprets it as Hanesek, which he says means gunsmith. I added, in yellow, the upper parts of the letters that may be missing from your mark IF the die was struck at a poor angle. Also I am not sure about Walthers translation. The letters would be H N S K with those two stray short lines in front


Download Attachment: Joop Hebr-Text.jpg
33.93 KB
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Heinz,

Walter's 'Luger' book is here on my bookshelf... Somehow I missed the picture on page 136. Thank you for finding it, and remembering this thread. I got no valid response from my collecting friends in Israel - like said before they thought that it might be a marking of a personal name.

The corrections that you made on the picture are indeed very instructive. It does make sence! I will again contact Eitan Feldmann and Gabi Ben Ami in Isreal and ask if the characters H N S K might also combine into other words. 'Hanesek' might be right... I will be back on this as soon as I have news.

Again - great help Heinz, greatly appreciated!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Heinz (and all interested collectors),

Thanks to the fact that Heinz combined the mutilated stamp as found on my 3 line Stoeger with the stamp that has been reported by John Walter in his book 'Luger' there is new information now.
I passed the pictures and this full thread to Eitan Feldmann and he writes me today that Heinz' assumption is correct. The engraving is HANESHEK which means in Hebrew "The Arms". It was Magen Liberman, a well known Israelian gunsmith of the early years who used to mark firearms like this. It is a sign that he either owned the marked weapon, or had it in his workshop for repairs.
Now I want to find our more about this Magen Liberman. That might take some time, but I am on the right track.
Thanks to every member that helped me to find the clue.
 
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