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Gold Bullet Member 2012
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
The purpose of this study is to try and learn more about the elusive Kü pistol. Hopefully it will also be a place where members can report Kü pistols that had not been previously reported.

Using Table 32.1 on page 560 of THE MAUSER PARABELLUM 1930-1946 as a guide one would expect certain standard properties and markings.

---- E/LA acceptance on R/H receiver and L/H of breechblock and barrel

---- The unnumbered parts normally are the hold open, inside of sideplate, rear toggle pin (receiver axle) and the end of the rear toggle link.

What I am searching for are variations from the "normal" if there is such a thing on Ku pistols.

DATA REQUESTED:

1- Serial number...please note if large numbers. Normal size is same as Ku stamp. See examples below for normal or large numbers
2- Chamber date and toggle markings
3- All barrel markings to include gauge
4- Grip information... wood or black plastic and any numbering. See examples below of normal and small numbers.
5- Magazine information...
6- Variations

SN------ CODE -----BARREL ----GRIPS ----MAG ----VARIATIONS


882Ku, BYF 41 B-90 barrrel

1033Kü, BYF 41,S/42-W/154, wood 1033, unmarked black fxo mag

1177Kü, BYF 41, Black grips, 2 matching alum bottom mags

1242 Ku, BYF 41....wood grips with matching SN

1261Kü, BYF 41,S/42-W/154, wood with small 1261 & E/655 grips, blank S/42 SE63 mag

1317Kü, BYF 41 wood with full SN both matching black fox mags.. see post 104

1327Kü, BYF 41, black fxo mag (from Wehrmacht Awards Forum)

1357Kü, BYF 41, S/42, W/154, wood, matching 1357+ fxo mag

1421Kü, BYF 41 Reblued.. (from Rock Island Auction catalog)


1431Kü, 41/42, S/42-W/154, wood 1431, black fxo #1431, no stamps on entire toggle assembly except for 42 code

1438Kü, BYF 41. Deactivated ...see post 92

1533Kü, 41 BYF, S/42-W/154, wood 1533, 1 matching alum mag, plum colored extractor

1603Kü, 41 BYF, S/42-W/154

1622Kü, 41 BYF, S/42-W154, wood 1622, black fxo, no E/LA on breechblock

1630Kü, 41 BYF, wood grips, in Germany, see post 115

1675Kü, 41 BYF, S/42, Wood, black fxo mag 2640+

1699Kü, 41 BYF, S/42, Wood 1699, matching alum mag

1702Kü, 41 BYF, S/42, Wood not numbered. Matching "+" alum fxo mag ...see post #65

1768Kü, 41 BYF, S/42-W154, wood 1768, black fxo, unnumbered breechblock

1834Kü, 1938 BYF VOPO East German rework

1918Kü, 1939 BYF, E/655 barrel, 42 before SN on left frame, wood grips with SN.

1956Kü, 1939 BYF, E/655 barrel, wood grips with E/655 and SN, black mag not numbered.

2059Kü, 41 BYF, wood grips and alum bottom FXO mag

2222Kü, 41 BYF, E/655 proofs, numbered wood grips and numbered black bottom mag.

2431Kü, 41 BYF, See post #127

2460Kü, 41 BYF, wood grips, East German Rework See post #71

2520Kü, 41 BYF. E/655, Type 1 black grips, black bottom mag

2678Kü, 41 BYF, Both matching black bottom mags

2580 Ku, 41/42 , see posts 130 & 132

2790Kü, 41 BYF, E/135, wood 2790, black fxo, breechblock not numbered

2866Kü, 41/42, E/655, wood 2866, matching black fxo, sideplate 42 coded

3050 Kü, 41/42, See post #108 for pictures and details

3073 Ku, 41/42, see post #78 for pictures. Black grips & MATCHING + MAG..

5148Ku, 41 BYF, E/655 , wood grips with 48 & E/655... see post 159

Kü 1465, 41 BYF, HK type wood grips not numbered. No proofs on breechblock

Kü 3128, 41/42, E/655, wood 3128, black fxo, coupling link blued

Kü 3153, 41/42, wood 3153, 42 code sideplate and safety.. See post 85

Kü 3171, 41/42, E/655, wood grips, black fxo... See post #71

Kü 3220, 41/42, 42 sideplate, 3220 wood grips with E/655, black fox

3301, 41/42, E/655, wood 3301, black fxo

Kü 3350, 41 BYF, Wood 50. See posts #117 & 118

Kü 3397, 41/42, Wood 97, See post 123

Kü 3418, 41/42, wood 3418 and E/655, black fox, Brit proofs, see post 95

3426, 41/42, E/655, wood 3426, no breechblock proof, 2 matching alum mags..See post #76

Kü 3469, 41/42, E/655, wood 3469 and E/655, black fxo

Kü 3549, 41 BYF, E/655, wood 3549, black fxo

Kü 3599, 41 BYF, E/655, wood 3599, black fxo

Kü 3634, 41/42, Appears to perhaps have a renumbered receiver... See post #106 for details

3642, 41/42, matching numbered black fox

Ku 3653, 41 BYF, See post 142

Kü 3657,
41 BYF, numbered black fxo, safety lever strawed and receiver overstamped

3720, 41 BYF, reworked and stayed in service after the war. See post #63

Kü 3834, 41 DWM, HK coarse brown grips, 42 replacement sideplate see Post #89

Ku¨4258, 41 BYF, E/655, wood grips, Listed in TRL on page 101 and TMP on page 558. See post #111
Ku 4312 41 BYF.. see post 137

Ku 4318 41 BYF E/655 numbered wood grips

4319, 41 BYF, E/655, matching 42 replacement sideplate, numbered wood grips,black fxo mag,sear bar 1965

Kü 4363, 41/42, E/655, 42 replacement sideplate, wood grips

4425, 41/42, matching numbered black fxo mag

Ku 4453, 41/42, see post 137


PISTOLS PERHAPS WITH SOME CONNECTION ???

6573 ... No Kü but E/LA accepted. See post 36
6766 Kü .... 42/42 with no E/LA acceptance... See posts 56 & 58
9932 ... DWM 1918/1920 . No Kü but with E/LA acceptance on barrel... See post 68
 

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Copper Bullet Member
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372 Posts
Dave ,
byf 41 Serial # 1177ku / luftwaffe Proof / 2 matching mags 95% Gun
I am going from memory on this Luger , as I looked at it some time back . I had hopes of buying it , but Vet has passed and relative will not sell it .

Ron
 

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Ku 3642, 41-42, E/L, Matching black plastic mag.,fxo/e37, barrel of gun has large pits due to poor storage. Magazine also is in bad shape.

Frank
 

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Gold Bullet Member 2012
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6,108 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Ron... Do you recall what the mags looked like. Black plastic or alum bottoms and were they numbered to the gun??
 

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Gold Bullet Member 2012
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6,108 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Frank.... Is the mag numbered to the pistol and is the size of the serial number on the L/H side big or small ???
 

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Gold Bullet Member 2012
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6,108 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Ron... Thanks for the additional information. I see this gun is listed in THE MAUSER PARABELLUM and has black plastic grips. Pity that you were not able to give it a good new home. This pistol would sure shed some light on some unanswered questions.

List updated...
 

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Hi Dave, I have Ku 3657, LZA proofed, with matching black plastic bottom numbered mag. Grips are wood. Safety lever is numbered to gun but is STRAW finish, not salt blue (as most tend to be). Gun is 98%+ condition.
Regards,
Kelly
 

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Gold Bullet Member 2012
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6,108 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Ron... Thanks for the correction. Do you recall if they were numbered to the gun ????
 

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Gold Bullet Member 2012
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6,108 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Kelly... Thanks for the NEW Ku number. What is the date and toggle code??? Any chance you could post pictures of the bottom of the mag ?? Is the SN on the L/H side of the receiver larger than the number on the front of the frame. This is good stuff and really is what this study is all about..... I appreciate you joining in....
 

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Diamond Member with Oak Clusters and Swords
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569 Posts
Dave,
s/n Ku 4425, large numbers
Chanber: 41 and 42
Rear toggle has small 42
Left barrel has LZA proof
Rt frame has LZA proof only
Grips are walnut and each numbered "Ku 4425 "
Mag: FXO E/37, P 08 and pasltic bottom engraved 4425 over +
Regards, Jerry
 

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Silver Bullet Member 2012
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463 Posts
2678 Ku: LZA on breechblock, RH receiver, and barrel, e/135 on barrel, no other barrel markings; 41 chamber date, byf toggle; wood grips numbered "2678"; two fxo black bottom mags numbered "2678" & "2678 over +"
 

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Gold Bullet Member 2012
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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks to member Snipershot 1944 (David Chandler) I have added 1533Ku to the list. It comes with a alum numbered mag that is really interesting to this study as well as the one on Black Bottom Mags.

It looks to me that this is numbered in exactly the same way that the "heat stamped" black plastic Ku mags are numbered and I wonder if the same equipment may have been used to do both types of mag bottoms.

Do not know if the melting temps of the alum and black plastic mag bottoms are close enough and would sure appreciate any comments from anybody who might know.

Am posting a excellent picture that David was kind enough to send below and will attempt to do a comparison over on the Black Mag Bottom study...
 

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Can't speak to the "heat stamped" black plastic mags, but the "1533 +" on David's aluminum mag bottom has been pantographed.
 

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Gold Bullet Member 2012
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Discussion Starter #19
Ron... Is it possible that business end of the pantograph machine could have been either for heat stamping or cutting ?? I see a lot of similarties in the size and placement of 1533+ numbers and "+" and many of the black plastic examples submitted.
 

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serial 1033Ku--large letters
chamber is 41
toggle is byf and Lza proofed
left barrel Lza proofed with s/42 on bottom of barrel
right frame is Lza proofed
walnut grips match 1033
mag is fxo plastic no serial

hope this is useful, Jim M.
 
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