[modar]

Anyone,

I have a Langenhan that has no serial number on the outside anywhere. The only numbers are on the inside and they are all #711. The front of the grip has LKS 194 on it. The bottom of mag also has the #194 on it. Can anyone tell me what the LKS 194 stands for? I had this posted in one other place but did not get any replies.

Jack

 

[r_t_darc]

It would seem that you have us all a bit stumped...

Normally, a marking such as yours starting in "L" would indicate Police ownership by the Landjagerei, or Rural Constabulary officers, as translated into English.

However, my reference doesn't list any German District which is abbreviated as "Ks". The closest I found are:

K - Koslin
Ka - Kassel
Kg - Konigsberg
Ko - Koln
Kz - Koblenz

A property number that high would imply a fairly large sized police department, I would think at any rate.
Is the "S" also capitalized, or is it in lower case?
Also are there any periods present between the letters?

I find the lack of an exterior serial number on your gun unusual and interesting in itself. Assuming there are no signs of it having been removed from the usual location, what sort of proofmarks does your pistol have, if any?
A couple of other European countries bought commercial FL pistols on contract, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe the property markings aren't even German ones to begin with.

Any one else have an opinion or guess of their own?

Rich M.

 

[modar]

Rich,

I took it apart again yesterday and found the serial number on the lower left side, inside of pistol grip mag channel, it is #73711 with two periods under it. The only other numbers are on the inside and they are all #711. The front of the grip has L.K.S.194., letters are all large case, numbers are smaller, on it. It has only the three crown N proof marks on it. The bottom of mag also has the #194 on it. It also does not have a trigger bar on the outside that can be seen. At what serial number did this change take effect?

THANKS,
Jack

 

[r_t_darc]

The only reference to the trigger bar that I could find was in Hogg's 'Pistols of the World'. He mentions that those below #13,500 had an internal trigger bar on the right side of the frame. After that point, it was moved to the left side and was now exposed. He doesn't say if there was a third version later into the production run.

Your unit marking still has me stumped, as well. But it definitely sounds like your gun is a later commercial one, even though my books continue to claim that none were made other than WW1 military contract production.

I'm sure everyone would love to see some photos of it, if you are able to provide any in the future.

Sorry I couldn't help any further, though.
Rich

 

[r_t_darc]

P.S. Since my FL is in the mid 11 thousand range and has the exposed trigger bar, the serial number range quoted by Hogg must be taken as a rough estimate, at best...

 

[modar]

Rich,

Thanks again for the info. I can't put pics on with my CPU, but will go to my daughter's and use hers within the next few days. Hope you find them interesting.

Jack

 

[r_t_darc]

Jack-
I'm looking forward to your photos. Mine are already posted in a thread started by Jan in the WW1 non-Luger section.

Another note on the trigger bar:
I looked through my copy of Ezell's 'Handguns of the World' yesterday. He pictures serial number 2229, which also has an external trigger bar on the left hand side.
Either Hogg meant to say #1350 for the changeover, or he got very mixed up on this particular subject. In either case, I have no detailed book covering this interesting pistol.

 

[modar]

Rich,

Here are the pics I promised you. Three with three to follow.



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Download Attachment: gun 003.jpg
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[modar]

Rich,

Here are the other three.



Download Attachment: gun 004.jpg
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Download Attachment: gun 005.jpg
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Download Attachment: gun 006.jpg
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I figured it out.

Jack

 

[r_t_darc]

Your pictures turned out just fine (so disregard my e-mail offering of assistance). I was hoping that someone more knowledgeable than myself would join in the discussion, but so far no luck there... I think that your gun shows several interesting features, at any rate.
Concealed serial number, internal trigger bar, a lack of Imperial acceptance, and an unusual unit mark all add to its appeal in my opinion. I can't think of anything it could be other than an early Weimar Police issued piece.

Thanks for sharing your nice example with the group!

 

[r_t_darc]

Sorry that it's taken so long, but better late than never, right?

As I was paging through my book of unit markings the other day,
I finally came upon one that does exactly fits this example.
It is a Weimar Police agency, and it's an interesting one!

The sample in the book is marked as: W. K. S. 5.
That translates as Kommando Wurzburg, Kraftfahr-Sonderabteilung,
Sonderwagen-Staffel, gun number #5 (with letters 4mm in height).

Yours would be virtually identical, with the exception of the
region being changed to L, for the police district of Lindau.

I suppose you would like an English version of all that, too?
You have weapon number 194 from the motor transport section's
armored vehicle squadron in the region of Lindau, all of which
fell under the label of Bavarian State Police (the Landespolizei).
It was carried by one of the paramilitary troops which were using
armored cars, maxim machine guns, & experienced army veterans
during the struggle to keep order amid the riots of the 1920's.

What threw me off initially, was that the abbreviation for the
locality is usually (but not always) the last letter in the order.
I'm still surprised that no one else jumped in to help you out.

Hope you found it interesting, too!

Rich

 

[modar]

Rich,

Thank you, that information is appreciated very much.

Thanks again,
Jack

 

[r_t_darc]

Jack-

You're very welcome. Be sure to share with us again!

Rich