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quote:Originally posted by jacobtowne

André:
Once again, thank you for the contribution.
Is the "Liste Der Fremdgeräte" available online?
JT
JT:

I don't think so, it was reprinted in the late 80's, but I don't know if it is still available. The right name is "Kennblätter fremden Geräts", sorry for stating the wrong name.

André
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Hi Dean:
I just checked my old copy of Hogg's Pistols of the Worldand 9mm Browning Long it is. He says that there was a report that some were made for German Ordnance in WWI in .380, but that had not been verified at the time of writing (1970s).
Thank you for the contribution.
JT
 

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Here are a couple of questions and additions. Might as well list them all!
Is there no designation for the Norway Nagant? (They have the Polish and Russian ones) Oooopps! Found it, 610 (n).
What is the CZ 22 number?
Why do they list Belgian non-military accepted pistols like the 1922s (32 and 380) and the 1903. Did they hope to get them at the factory? Was there that many military private purchase that they thought they would encounter a lot of them?
The Steyr 1908/34 is not listed. Did the Nazi police get some of them?
620 (b) FN 1900
622 (b) Belgian contract Colt Pocket pistol, Cal 32acp
626 (d) Danish 1922 32 acp
642 (f) French contract Astra 21 (400)
647 (f) French contract Star B 32acp
670 (i) Italian Brixia (probably 1910 Glisenti too) 9mm Glisenti
634 (f) French revolver Spanish made copy of S&W M&P 8mm
635 (f) Listed same as above?
636 (f) French contract, Spanish copy of Colt revolver 8mm
637 (f) French 1892 Ordnance revolver 8mm
654 (f) French 1873 or 1874 revolvers, 11mm
612 (g) Greek Nagant 1895 7.62mm
613 (g) Greek Nagant 1812 7.62mm
648 (g) Greek contract Colt Official Police .38 spl
649 (g) Greek contract S&W M&P .38 spl
643 (h) Dutch service revolver Model 1912 9.4mm
680 (i) Italian revolver Model 1889 10.35mm
The British ones include the Enfield products too?
These are from Lt Col Whittington's Vol 2.

Dean
 

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Astra 900.
The list appears to be a list of weapons that may be "encountered" in the field. Not necessarily captured. Just thinking about the Hungarian ones and the Italian ones.
Dean
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Dean:
Once again, thanks for the help - great list you provided.
I plugged them all in except:
1. Steyr 1908/34. How would you list this?
2. The Greek Nagant revolvers. There are two Nagants listed, one is 1812. Typo?

JT
 

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Sorry, yep, typo its 1912.
I am not sure about the the Steyr 1908/34. I don't know much about Police pistols. I just remember reading that some were absorbed into the police system? Sorry I can't provide more info on it.
Dean
 

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I looked them up again. 634 (f) states French revolver, Spanish copy of S&W type revolver made by "La Industrial Orbea, Eibar" 8mm
635 (f) French revolver, Spanish copy of S&W type revolver, 8mm
Just to fill in the blanks.
Dean
 

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Its funny that they start at 610 after P 39(t) and end about 680. Are the blanks pistols/revolvers or other equipment? OK, someone has the complete list...where are you?
Dean
 

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A lot of countries use the year of adoption? I have seen Nagants listed as 1892, 1883, 1893, 1887. Just a guess...I will keep digging.
Dean
 

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Thanks JT for doing this, great list.
Here is what I could find.
Greek Nagant Model 1892 (Whittington)
Greek Nagant Model 1912 (Whittington)
Greece Nagant Model 1894 (Adamek)
Greece Revolver Nagant Md. 1898 (Muller)
So, I hope that straightens things out!
Some appear to be Gas-seals...some not. Maybe one of our members from Greece can help us.
Dean
 

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Discussion Starter #36
I have no idea whether the info. on the vz22 is correct.
I checked Adamek, and do not know why he uses M1894. Unfortunately, he provides no attribution in his book.
So now we have four possible year/model designations. Sheesh!
As you said, Dean, perhaps someone familiar with Greek sidearms will help.
Do you think this topic would be better served un-stickied for the time being? I ask, because I usually pay little attention to stickies.
JT
I'll follow Whittington (which I don't own) for now, and change the 1895 to 1892.
 
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Steyr 1904/34: Austrian guns have no Fremdgeräte-number because Austria was united with Germany not occupied! In the semi-official "Waffen- und Schiesstechnischer Leitfaden für die Ordnungspolizei" from 1944 it is simply named "Steyr-Pistole 34"

No czech guns appear in the "Kennblätter fremden Geräts", so there is no clear Fremdgeräte-number.

André
 

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JT,
I must be asleep at the switch! I am sorry. Whittington is 1895! So we have one Greek revolver as the 1895 and the other as the 1912. I am sure you are thinking that this is hard enough without Dean changing stuff!
I would keep it as a sticky for now as it seems people are watching it. Don't forget the Astra 900.

Thanks Andre for the info on the Steyr-Pistole 34.
Dean
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Well, you're not the only one who falls asleep occasionally. In my case it's known as a "senior moment."

I updated the list with the following queries:

1. Astra 900 in cal. 7.63 Mauser. Is this correct? They made some in 9mm Largo.

2. I'm confused about the Steyr 1904. Is this the same arm in 8mm that was accepted by the Austro-Hungarian Army and designated the M1907?
I find no references to a M34. Help!

JT
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Why is the Czech vz38 listed as Pistole 39?

André:
The Czech pistol designations are simply their Czech model numbers, rather than Fremdgeräte numbers, same as Austrian pistols?

JT
 
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