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JT,
Yes, 7.63mm. The Germans only got 1,050 of the 900s during the war. Steyr 1908/34 is the Steyr 1908 updated in 1934 with some improvements (7.65mm).
Dean
Here is a photo of mine.


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JT
The complete list (nearly 400 pages as loose leaf book) can be ordered at the
publisher:
Klemens W. Künneke
Große Barlinge 10
D- 30171 Hannover
Germany

Tel. 49 511 2834905
 
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quote:Originally posted by jacobtowne

Why is the Czech vz38 listed as Pistole 39?

André:
The Czech pistol designations are simply their Czech model numbers, rather than Fremdgeräte numbers, same as Austrian pistols?

JT
It is named Pistole 39 (t) to be not confused with the German Pistole 38.
I think that all czech guns in german service are named normally withe their czech year plus the (t) for "tschechisch" .

I yesterday looked up my example of the H.Dv.g. 27 "Handbuch - Die Tschechoslowakische Wehrmacht" - the official german handbook on the czech army (secret), in it one can read that only pistols in 9 mm were used by the czech army. Were the P 27 officaly used by the czech before occupation?
 

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Discussion Starter #45
André:
Of course. Two Model 38 pistols would not have been a good idea.

The vz27 cal. 32 pistol was never accepted by the Czech military.
Frantisek Myska of C.Z. redesigned the vz24 into a simpler blowback pistol, the vz27, which was placed on the market primarily as a commercial product for police and citizens. It was not commercially successful, with only 15,000 sold by 1938. Some Czech government agencies, such as Customs and Postal Service, bought a few.

About 453,000 were made for the German war effort during the occupation.
JT
 
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quote:Originally posted by jacobtowne

Heinrich:
400 pages! That must list all the equipment, not only sidearms, correct?
JT
Only sidearms! Pistols, rifles, bajonetts, sabre's ... That's the D 50/1, for other equipment there were other volumes of this Wehrmacht regulation (e. g. artillery equipment, signal equipment....)
 

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Discussion Starter #48
André:
I just noticed that the U following Pistole 37 is (ü).
Should the U be umlauted? I thought the German word for Hungary was Ungarn.

Re: Your last post. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but we may be talking about two different things. Sidearm means handgun - pistol and revolver. It does not include other small arms such as rifles, or edged weapons. The term is usually associated with the U.S. military, and perhaps the British as well.
If it is causing confusion, I'll gladly change the topic heading to handgun.
Again, thank you for the contributions.
JT
 

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JT,
The original publisher was the "Heereswaffenamt" Army Ordnance Administration, issue 20. March 1941, expanded until 1943.
Described are: pistols, revolvers with their holsters, rifles, submachine guns, bayonets and accessories. No other equipment.
Each gun is pictured in a small size.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
An antiques dealer in Germany has a reprint of the "Kennblätter Fremden Geräts," Issue 1, Handwaffen, for sale at 60 Euros (I think that's what the symbol means). As Heinrich says, it was originally published by the Heerswaffenamt.



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Antique Firearms Hartmut Burger GmbH
Friedhofstr. 4
56290 Dommershausen-Sabershausen
Tel. 0049 - (0)6762/2967
Fax. 0049 - (0)6762/950285
Mobil: 0171 2121139
E-mail: [email protected]
Geschhäftsführer: Hartmut Burger
UST ID NR. DE 120 158 722
Handelsregister Amtsgericht Bad Kreuznach HRB 3541.


JT
 

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JT,
In this list are registered pistols, revolvers, rifles, submachine guns,
holsters and accessories and bayonets.
Each gun is pictured with a small photo.
The list has been first issued 1941 and was then expanded until 1943.
 

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There are Czech military accepted Cz-27 pistols. They start appearing in 1935 and go thru 1938. These Pistols were probably Czech government pistols and not true miltary issue, but they do have the same Czech miltary acceptance marks as the Cz-24, Cz-38 and the Vz-24 rifles.

Robert
 
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quote:Originally posted by jacobtowne

André:
I just noticed that the U following Pistole 37 is (ü).
Should the U be umlauted? I thought the German word for Hungary was Ungarn.
Jacob: The correct name is, as I stated before, only Pistole 37!
They are marked P Mod. 37, nothing more!

If you have to use a letter, it will only be "u" for ungarisch (hungarian). The U Umlaut is a mistake different author copy from each other, that's the reality!
 

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Discussion Starter #56
I have come across another list of foreign equipment (taken from the original I think) at the Axis History forum. It was compiled by a member from Norway. I have deleted the rifles, carbines, anti-tank rifles, and submachine guns from the list, and will incorporate new items in the master list as time permits.

The author states: "During the war, the German army captured huge amounts of weapons from their enemies. Most types were tested by the Heereswaffenamt. After testing, each type was given a number, followed by the first letter of the country of origin.
This list shows the status of most captured weapons up to 1943 (Note that not all weapons entered service in the Wehrmacht)."

Belgium
Pistole 620(b) Ex "Pistolet 1900" - Calibre 7,65mm
Pistole 621(b) Ex "Pistolet 1910" - Calibre 7,65mm
Pistole 622(b) Ex "Pistolet Colt" - Calibre 7,65mm
Pistole 626(b) Ex "Pistolet Browning" - Calibre 7,65mm
Pistole 640(b) Ex "Pistolet Browning G.P" - Calibre 9mm
Pistole 641(b) Ex "Pistolet Browning" (Police model) - Calibre 9mm


Denmark
Pistole 626 (d) Ex "Browning" - Calibre 7,65mm
Pistole 644(d) Ex "Bergmann M1910/21" - Calibre 9mm

France
Pistole 623(f) Ex "Pistolet automatique type Star" - Calibre 7,65mm
Pistole 624(f) Ex "Pistolet automatique type Ruby" - Calibre 7,65mm
Pistole 625(f) Ex "Pistolet automatique 1935A" - Calibre 7,65mm
Revolver 634(f) Ex "Revolver Eisbar" - Calibre 8mm
Revolver 635(f) Ex "Revolver" - Calibre 8mm
Revolver 636(f) Ex "Revolver" - Calibre 8mm
Revolver 637(f) Ex "Revolver 1892" - Calibre 8mm
Pistole 642(f) Ex "Pistolet automatique type Astra Mod 1924" - Calibre 9mm
Pistole 647(f) Ex "Pistolet automatique type Colt" - Calibre 38
Revolver 654(f) Ex "Revolver 1873 et 1874" - Calibre 11mm

Greece
Revolver 612(g) Ex "Nagant 95" - Calibre 7,62mm
Revolver 613(g) Ex "Nagant 1912" - Calibre 7,62mm
Revolver 648(g) Ex "Colt" - Calibre 38
Revolver 649(g) Ex "Smith & Wesson" - Calibre 38

Holland
Pistole 626(h) Ex "Pistool M25 No1" - Calibre 7,65mm
pistole 641(h) Ex "Pistoole M25 No2" - Calibre 9mm
Revolver 643(h) Ex "Revolver M1912" - Calibre 9,1mm

Italy
Pistole 670(i) Ex "Pistola Mod 1910" - Calibre 9mm
Pistole 671(i) Ex "Pistola Mod 34" - Calibre 9mm
Revolver 680(i) Ex "M89" - Calibre 10,35mm

Norway
Revolver 610(n) Ex "Nagant M/93" - Calibre 7,5mm
Pistole 657(n) Ex "Automatisk pistol M/1914" - Calibre 45

Poland
Revolver 612(p) Ex "Rewolwer Nagan" - Calibre 7,62mm
Pistole 645(p) Ex "Pistolet Vis Vz-35" - Calibre 9mm

Soviet Union
Revolver 612(r) Ex "Revoljver obr Nagant 1895" - Calibre 7,62mm
Pistole 615(r) Ex " Tokarev 1930" - Calibre 7,62mm

United Kingdom
Revolver 646(e) Ex "No2 MK I Webley" - Calibre 38
Revolver 655(e) Ex "No1 MK VI Webley" - Calibre .455

USA
Pistole 660(a) Ex " Colt Mod 1911" - Calibre 45
Revolver 661(a) Ex " Colt Mod 1917" - Calibre 45
Revolver 662(a) Ex "Smith & Wesson Mod 1917" - Calibre 45

Yugoslavia
Pistole 641(j) Ex "M10/22 Browning" - Calibre 9mm

JT
 

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Discussion Starter #57
Not a lot new here, actually.
We did pick up a F.G. number for the Polish wz35 and a couple of other points of interest.
JT
 

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Discussion Starter #59
Has anyone been able to resolve the following discrepancy - two French handguns with the same Fremdgeräte number?

Pistole 647 (f) French contract Star B 32acp
**Pistole 647 (f) Ex Pistolet automatique type Colt caliber .38

JT
 

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JT,
the answer is very simple.
For the little man in Germany a pistol with such an apearance is a "Colt pistol".
On the sheet you can read: selfloading pistol system "Colt".And in the footnote:
Since the pistol is customary different companies can be producing it. This name isn't alone authoritatively as a characteristic. The model in the spoils is of Spanish origin.

Fritz

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