Luger Pistol ID Help

The squiglly thing on top of the "toggle" is a DWM, the manufacturers name. What numbers are on teh very top of it? i.e. on top of the receiver?

Provide pictures of the top, both sides (full pictures of the gun).

The magazine has both army and police charectoristics, having a + which usually means the 2nd or extra magazine, while a # 2 also means the same thing. Many Haenel magazines were for police, but were also made for the army. The inspection stamp is an Eagle 6, so was inspected by Simson.

The "holster" for a luger contained a "loading tool" and you can buy real ones and fake ones from many sources, they were used as a screwdriver and to load the magazine.


On the left of the gun, you will see a "sear safety", put there in 1933, it is an obvious sign that it was used as a police gun during that time period. It also appears to ahve had a magazine safety, i.e. the reweld spot on the left of the gun below the sear safety.

Being serial number 4873 q there is a very good chance it was made in 1927 and is called an Weimar Alphabet SN DWM Luger, but pictures from the top and both sides would be good.

GlockMasta

Welcome to the forum. I see you finally realized that the old luger was worthy of a photo presentation and a good one at that. By all means do not separate the pistol from the magazine even though she is worthy of her weight in silver.

The crown /N is a commercial proof not a military one and many Po8 were manufactured during the Weimar era as a way to help Germany out of her financial crisis at the end of WW#1. These firearms were intented for export but a good many survived only to find their way into the Nazi war machine and were used during the Nazi period as evident by the beautifull holster that she is matched up with.

The other fellows have already explained the police issue numbering of the magazines and because yours is both military and police proofed leads me to beleive that she started out for export, was snapped up by the police and ended her history in germany in the military as evident by the military holster dated 1937.

Indeed a very good example of a well utilized piece of weaponary that has undoubtly survived the test of time.

Never caught it at first but it would seem that your barrel has been restamped a long time ago as the stamps are struck hard and deep.

Hi all,
* Pete: From Jan Still, Weimar Luger, Pg. 184, "During the Weimar Era two types of magazines were issued with military and police Lugers. Both types were of sheet metal crimped construction. Initially wood based magazines, both of new manufacture and Imperial issue, were used. However, aluminum based magazines were introduced by the Army and, probably the Police, in 1925. However, wood base magazines continued to be used until at least 1929."

* All: Trust you noticed the barrel's Simson "ghost" eagle proof and the Crown/G repair acceptance stamp. According to Costanzo, WOLI, Pg. 195, Items 128/128A, both Mauser and Simson used this Crown/G repair acceptance mark circa 1929-1932. Per Sam, Mauser used a 4 pip crown and Simson used a 5 pip crown.

* Jan has a picture of this exact barrel sequence in Weimar Luger on pg. 138 on an Alpha DWM S/N 5749q which is Police unit grip strap marked to S.D.III.43 (Schutzpolizei Duesseldorf, 3rd Centuria, pistol #43).

* My Alpha DWM Police example is S/N 3039q which is unit grip strap marked to S.Ar.I.837 (Schutzpolizei Arnsberg, 1st Centuria, pistol #837). I believe mine has the 5 pip Crown/G barrel mark of Simson. Came with a matching '34 Schambach Police *L accepted PT.08 w/ the gun S/N 3039 marked on the upper right rear corner of the holster. As a sidebar, I have an early S/42-1936 S/N 8009f with the Mauser 4 pip crown located in the takedown lever well. I think this was a Mauser repair of the last of the DWM/BKIW no-humped frames shipped from Berlin. Used on Hitler's Pre-War, Army contract acceleration to get the masses working again.

* Houston: Haenel Schmeisser mag with the "star script H" and "Haenel in an arrow" logo of this design/manufacturing company.

* Houston: Looks like we have your posted example bracketed. A number of commercial marked C/N DWM examples, originally made in 1927, must have been converted to 9mm for the Prussian City police by Simson in the 1929-1933 period. Do you note a grip strap marking on your 4873q above? Might one have been there once upon a time??

Bob
Thanks for your excellent-detailed well researched post.

"* All: Trust you noticed the barrel's Simson "ghost" eagle proof and the Crown/G repair acceptance stamp. According to Costanzo, WOLI, Pg. 195, Items 128/128A, both Mauser and Simson used this Crown/G repair acceptance mark circa 1929-1932. Per Sam, Mauser used a 4 pip crown and Simson used a 5 pip crown."

I have a comment on Costanzo's designation of a 4 pip crown to signify Mauser repair and a 5 pip crown to signify Simson repair.

I would suggest that the pips on the crown discussed above (Costanzo, page 195 #128.128A) do not establish a separate repair proof used by Mauser (4 pips) and Simson (5 pips) from 1929-1932. Instead the pips are the simple result of a broken die or die manufacturing variances. Two Lugers bearing the C/G are shown in Weimar Lugers, page 136 serial number 7777q, and page 138 serial number 5749q. Both these Alphabet DWM Lugers were new manufactured in about 1927. There is no evidence of specific Mauser or Simson repair.

Costanzo’s book “World of Luger Proof Marks” is without peer and world renowned for its cataloging of Luger markings. When published in 1977 there were a number questions raised about the Costanzo’s countless designations for each slight difference in the various stamps. His designations were almost all without any attempt at documentation. In my opinion, Costanzo lost these debates in AUTOMAG.

Also, archive documentation or other have established the actual meaning of some of the stamps. A few examples:
R.G. (Page 226 # 246) Costanzo claims the reverse wording of Grenadeer Regiment. German research has established that R.G. signifies Reichs Gendarmerie.
AWM/3/12 (page 217 # 212) Costanzo claims holster code used by A. Wunderlich Militar German research has established that AWM signifies Artillery Workshop Munchen.
S.D. (Page 220 #224) Costanzo claims Nazi Sicherheitsdienst having control over all police and intelligence units. Prussian State Police orders dated 12 April 1922 establish that S.D. signifies Schutzpolizei Dusseldorf
These are but a few examples.

In my opinion, Costanzo’s book “World of Luger Proof Marks” is outstanding for establishing Luger markings. However some of the designations must be taken with a grain of salt.
Jan