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Discussion Starter #1
All,


I come looking for answers after doing some internet sleuthing.

Picked this up, sans magazine.

Grips are wooden.

Frame serial is 885494. There are no serial numbers on the slide or barrel. Barrel may have a WR. There are circular machine marks under the barrel, and the slide area is finish matched and looks unaltered. Under a picture light and focus, there MAY have been numbers at one time under the barrel, but it could be tricks of photography, I don't know.

Trigger guard has acceptance proofs, but no other marks.

Frame is phosphate / parkd, the slide is blue.

The internal parts looked milled, except for the ejector which is blued and I think stamped. On the ejector is the WR stamp. The guide lever also looks stamped, but isn't blued.

Lastly, and unfortunately, the frame has two small cracks in each of the frame rails. You can see that each side was heat treated, but it didn't look to have worked.

The unserialed barrel and slide, plus the WR proof on the ejector are throwing me for a loop. What's the most likely story based on the pics?

I found a thread online from 2013 where someone is asking about pistol 885492, which is just 2 down from mine. The poster is asking about phosphate finishes on a pistol with an un-serialed slide and barrel.

https://www.mauserguns.com/forum/index.php?topic=174.0


The poster mentions that in the HSc book, there are examples between 882k and 896k that were phosphated.


Here are my questions:

What's the most like story for a frame / un-numbered slide finish mismatch?

Was the heat treatment on the frame done by the factory at time of production? IE was the heat treatment before or after the cracks happened?

Were the WR stamps only used on French pistols, or was this used as a common parts proof on the HSc models?

Do the cracks relegate this pistol to shadowbox/wall hanger status?

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Any thoughts here?

If it's wall hanger and a 100% sure mismatch, I'll probably part it out in the FS section.
 

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First welcome to the forum. Well, I for one am not a gunsmith but I would regulate the gun to the wall because of the cracks. If not because of safety just further damaging the gun. What you have is as you found one of the demonstrator phosphate HSC's because these were trial and error, my guess is the blued slide is original to the gun. It appears they may have been trying a mix and match of what worked, as the reported also had phosphate barrels which yours is not, but yours is not serial numbered which tends to lead it as original with the unnumbered slide. I am hoping Alan (warbird) who is a member here may eventually chime in for more information.
 

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Sam - I really appreciate it. It's entirely outside of my wheelhouse here, the HSc isn't something I'm super familiar with.

I had messaged Alan over on gunboards and he directed me to Simpson perhaps, who I subsequently messaged and didn't receive a reply at all.

I would imagine the most likely story is that it IS a mismatch / parts gun, and maybe that's the hesitancy to speak on it at all.

The frame s/n + finish, the un-numbered slide and barrel throw a wrench in the works.

I believe your interpretation is plausible, but I also understand nearly impossible to prove. I think it's a beautiful pistol.

I wish the pistol could talk...

Thank you again.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Anyone else out there with an early HSc demonstrator that can answer my question about frame rail spot heat treatment?
 

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The "WR" entwined mark is for "Werkes Revision", an internal inspection unit within Mauser. The part was made by Mauser and inspected by Mauser. IIRC the only thing that would confirm French assembly is their final approval star mark instead of the military contract acceptance marks and proof mark. Many of the parts in French HsC pistols were made during the war, and then assembled and completed under French control.

I can't see enough detail to see the cracks you mention.
 

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Late comer here as I only seem to get time to follow the forums when the weather starts to turn nastier in the upper Midwest. I followed the Mausergun.com link also and may have even posted about my own early "demonstration" phosphate. I have not had enough downtime to dig into the safe to get it out. As for the pistol in question here, my 2 cents this is a parts gun. The frame is in the correct serial number range for the "demonstration" phosphate HScs so that may be completely correct. It is hard to confirm the phosphate color in the pics provided due to lighting. My own "demonstration" phosphate HSc is a darker approaching black color and definitely different than the later phosphate green-gray. My slide and barrel are both phospate finished and numbered in typical HSc fashion to match the last 3 of the frame serial. The slide and barrel not having matching serials tells me they are not original to the frame. All the "demonstration" phosphates I have seen or read on had a phosphate finished slide and majority, if not all, had a phosphate finished barrel. I bought mine knowing what it was from one of the gun auction sites and it did not have much interest. Perhaps the phosphate barrel threw people who thought it was a bastardized refinish. Don't want to burst anyone's bubble here. I believe since the demonstration phosphates were intended to provide proof of the benefits of this finish, it is unlikely there were "hybrids" with phosphate components mated to standard military blue. Barrels may be the exception but again I have found most to have phosphate barrels also.

I'm not certain why Alan would have directed you to Simpsons. Perhaps he had some knowledge that the pistol passed through their shop? He usually provides very helpful, informed and definitive input on nearly any HSc.

Finally, I wish they all could talk.........but forums like this and knowledge exchange between collectors help us substitute for the inability of the pistols to speak for themselves.

Good find in the frame itself! A variation that has a very small production number.
 
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