[Guest]

I just bought my first Luger. I have been collecting guns for 17 years, and always wanted one, but never bought one until now. Forgive me if I don't use the correct terms in my description. I don't have a digital Camera at the moment, but might be able to get one in a few days if anyone "needs" to see a picture. Here we go: It is a DWM, no date that I can see anywhere. The guy I bought it from said it was 1913-1918 era. there is a "07" behind the DWM on the top. Behind the barrel where the date is on others, mine is stamped 7.65 and then stamped over with "XXX". The serial number is 4007 possibly "e" and all numbers match on the barrel, frame and "slide?" (in front of side plate.) The side plate has an "82" midway up. There is a "17" stamped just below the rear sight above the lanyard loop. Under the Safety it reads "Besichert" or maybe "Gesichert" It does have the lug on the back strap for the shoulder stock attachment. It appears on the front strap that there was an inscription of sorts, but it is too worn to read. I would gauge it at about 80-85% bluing and and the wood grips about the same. Did I get hurt at $700?

 

[Luke]

David -
Welcome to the Forum. We have many experts here (Not I, but others) and I am sure you will get some good answers. I will attempt to give you a brief commentary.

From your description it sounds as if you have a "parts" Luger made up of parts from two or more guns. No date above the chamber would indicate that the gun is not a 1913-1918 era DWM. All DWMs from 1910-1918 have the year stamped in large letters over the top of the chamber. The "17" which appears "just below the rear sight" seems to be the serial number for the rear toggle link. On a matching Luger that number would be "07" to match the serial number "4007."
The "82" on the side plate indicates that it is from a 3rd Luger. I cannot comment on the 7.65 stamped over by XXX. Is this a 9mm Luger or a 7.65mm?

The gun would be classified as a "shooter" and not a collectable Luger. At $700 I would suspect that you paid a little too much for this Luger, but they are a lot of fun to own and shoot. Enjoy.

Luke

 

[donmaus]

David,

Welcome to this forum. The canceled 7,65 means that it originally was barreled for this caliber and has presumably been rebarreled for 9 mm. This could be a clue that it was manufactured in the 1920s, originally for commercial sale in .30 cal, and then rebarreled for Army or police use (see below). A good photo of the letter suffix you describe as an "e" would help identify its manufacture date.

If it is possible for you to get a clear photo of the front grip strap, I would be very interested in trying to decipher it. It may be a Weimar era Army or police unit mark. Ron Smith will be interested in the former and I the latter.

 

[Luke]

Don -

The thing that confuses me about the XXX stamped over 7,65 is that these numbers are normally on the barrel, not on the frame or receiver. I confess my relative ignorance of Weimar Lugers, and I would be interested in knowing if barrel diameter was stamped on the frame or receiver of some of the Weimar guns. From David's description it appears that the 7,65 was stamped on the top of the chamber where the date is normally found ? ? ?

Luke

 

[Policeluger]

You have a what is called a "7,65 crossout"....the gun was to be for commerical sales, the 7,65 was meant to make sure someone did not try and put 9mm ammo in it. it was pulled from factory storage and the 7.65 off a 9mm for police use barrel was installed and the 7,65 XXX. Original gun was rust blue and barrel salt blued, there would/will be a color contrast if the gun is original finish between the gun and the barrel. But your does sound parts gun.

 

[Edward Tinker]

Somewhere I have read that this occured (Just as Howard states), I don't remember the book. But some police guns and sometimes guns taken into army were marked 7.65 to mark them differently (that they took 7.65) and then when re-barreled, the 7.65 was x'd out. From what I remember, this is more common on non-lugers, i.e. secondary weapons.

Ed

 

[Ron Wood]

According to Costanzo (page 204) the 7,65 marked Lugers were rebored</u> to 9mm , the 7,65 Xed-out and subsequently sold commercially and to the police. I suspect that policeluger's observation that they were re-barreled is the more likely scenario.

 

[Policeluger]

Ed/Ron...if you want for "show and tell time" at the up coming Reno show, I can bring my mint police 7,65 cross out...that is correct Ron,guns were re-barreled not rebored.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the quick resposes guys, I will try to get some pictures and post them for you this weekend. In response to PoliceLuger, the bluing on the barrel is darker than on the rest of the gun, so it does appear it could be two different types of bluing. For Don, all I can tell you about th "e" is , it appears to be a lower case letter "e" in cursive or maybe a lower case "L" in cursive. Like I said, I will try to get a picture and post it on here this weekend.

 

[Edward Tinker]

Howard. Yes, that would be nice.

Ed

 

[donmaus]

David,

Only other info to add prior to photos is that it is "Gesichert", meaning "Safe".