[Lloyd in Vegas]

I have been meaning to post pictures of this recent acquisition but didn't get around to taking some pictures until today. These are according to Whittington ("German Pistols and Holsters 1934-1945 Volume II (revised))a somewhat scare Nazi commercial era pistol that are Eagle/ N proofed. I guess this would mean they were manufactured after the proof law change to E/N of April 1, 1940 although it is now believed the Eagle/N proof began to emerge around January 1, 1940.

Anyway, these Kommer model 4s are basically a copy of the Belgian Browning 1910 design in the caliber 7,65mm. The left side of the slide is marked “Waffenfabrik Kommer Zella Mehlis Cal 7,65”. The pistol has three (3) Eagle/N marks found on the right front top trigger web, right rear slide and on the barrel. This one is serial number 15316. It is all matching assembly number “77” and these assembly numbers are found on the barrel, slide (inside), frame, firing pin and the knurled front barrel screw-in spring retainer bushing.(see photos)

This is an exceptionally well made and fitted pistol exhibiting outstanding craftsmanship and attention to detail. The highly polished blue finish reminds me of the gorgeous pre war (II) Colt Government M1911A1s. I was amazed at how well this pistol fits together and the slide to frame fit is a thing of beauty. If you find one of these pistol do not overlook it because these were certainly a pistol that would/could have been an officer private purchase and I am sure proudly and confidently carried. According again to Whittington there were only about 5,000 of these model 4 Kommers made.
Download Attachment: Kommer Right Side.jpg
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Download Attachment: Kommer Left Side.jpg
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Download Attachment: Kommer Assembly Numbered Parts.jpg
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Download Attachment: Kommer Eagle N Proof.jpg
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[Pancho]

This pistol took me a long time to find.
Here's mine:
Download Attachment: Kommer-Model-4-EN-1.jpg
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Download Attachment: Kommer-Model-4-EN-2.jpg
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Download Attachment: Kommer-Model-4-EN-3.jpg
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New addition to photo, re. discovery in these posting:
Download Attachment: Kommer-Model-4-EN-4.jpg
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[Dgiz]

Lloyd and Pancho,
Couple of nice looking Kommers. I agree, they are a tough pistol to come across.
According to Hogg and Weeks in "Pistols of the World" these Kommers were made by Theodor Kommer Waffenfabrik, Zella Mehlis. They started pistol production in 1920 and the Model 4 was introduced in 1936. Somewhere around serial number 12000 the cocking indicator was introduced. All production of Kommer pistols ended in 1940.
There maybe some overlap as to the cocking indicator pin because mine is serial number 14134 and does not have that feature.
This is odd...mine has assembly number 77 too.
Dean


Download Attachment: km1.jpg
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Download Attachment: km.jpg
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Download Attachment: km2.jpg
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[Dgiz]

Hey Pancho, what is the serial number on yours?
Dean

 

[Pancho]

Dean,
Ser. # is 16461. Have updated photo.
Would like to ID & photo the assembly number.
Must have stripped it at one time to clean it,
but am currently stumped.
How do I field strip this piece?
Pancho

 

[Lloyd in Vegas]

Pancho,

Thanks for posting the serial number of your Kommer model 4. I t would be interesting to see what the assembly numbers are.

To strip/takedown the Kommer model 4 to the following:

First remove the magazine. Next pull the slide back until the safety latch engages a notch in the slide. At this point rotate the exposed barrel approximately 90 degrees to unlock it from the frame. Releasing the safety catch from the slide notch allows the slide to go forward off the frame. Be very careful not to lose the firing pin spring and load indicator pin/spring when you remove or separate the slide from the frame. They can fall out or fly out. To remove the barrel and recoil spring from the slide, press in and unscrew the milled bushing (counterclock wise) surrounding the muzzle from the slide allowing the force out of the recoil spring and allowing it and the barrel to come out of the slide. Reassembley is the reverse, first assembling the barrel and recoil spring and bushing inside the slide as a unit. Return slide (assembled with barrel and recoil spring and bushing in place) to the safety catch latch in the slide position and rotate the barrel in to the locked frame position. Replace the magazine and check for proper function

Hope this makes sense and that it helps. Lloyd in Vegas

 

[Fritz]

Congratulation men,
I'm searching since 15 years for such a pistol here in Germany .
They are very rare above all the E/N variation.
I saw only two of them but both in a very bad shape with cracked grips.
Lloyd, in my opinion your pistol looks a bit to shiny, isn't it ?

Fritz

 

[Pancho]

Lloyd, thanks for the field stripping info.

LLoyd, Dean,
I think we have made a discovery
and that maybe we can contribute
something to the collecting community.
I looked very carefully,
and mine does not have an assembly #.

Ser. #------Assembly #
14134----------77
15316----------77
16461---------none

So, somewhere between 15316 and 16461 the pistol stopped having the assembly number.
A difference of 1,145 units.
Would be interesting to narrow it down some more.
I wonder if anyone else has a ser.# they want to contribute.

Look above. I've added this info to the photos and credited you re. the info and photo. Is this OK with you. I'll modify the credits, etc. any way that you want them.

Also, here's a link to the whole spread on my website:
http://www.panchogun.com/FVWebPhotos/FV-Kommer-Nazi-EN-765mm-5x100px.jpg

Pancho

 

[Pancho]

Lloyd, thanks for the field stripping info.

LLoyd, Dean,
I think we have made a discovery
and that maybe we can contribute
something to the collecting community.
I looked very carefully,
and mine does not have an assembly #.

Ser. #------Assembly #
14134----------77
15316----------77
16461---------none

So, somewhere between 15316 and 16461 the pistol stopped having the assembly number.
A difference of 1,145 units.
Would be interesting to narrow it down some more.
I wonder if anyone else has a ser.# they want to contribute.

Look above. I've added this info to the photos and credited you re. the info and photo. Is this OK with you. I'll modify the credits, etc. any way that you want them.

Also, here's a link to the whole spread on my website:
http://www.panchogun.com/FVWebPhotos/FV-Kommer-Nazi-EN-765mm-5x100px.jpg

Pancho

 

[Lloyd in Vegas]

Fritz,

That is a very good question about the very shiny high polish blue finish on this Kommer of mine and I have certainly wrestled with that question. I have compared it to another one (earlier model without cocking indicator pin) and it seems identical in terms of the very shiny blue polish finish. It is certainly possible that it is a old well administered high polish re blue finish. It however, does not exhibit the re bluing type results you typically expect to see especially with a pistol that has such a glossy high polish finish. The corner edges and lateral slide edges both on frame and slide that transition 90 degrees are crisp and retain their sharpness and are not rounded even under high magnification. All pistol markings and stampings are crisp and sharp and none of the markings or slide legend words show any weakness, diminishment, shallowness or unevenness one would expect from a re bluing the requires considerable heavy polishing. Also, all the parts that should be non blued are. The blue wear patterns are consistent with a pistol that has been holstered repeatedly and manipulated and there are no scars or abrasions that have been blued over. The very high polish blue surface looks identical to a number of pre war or early war PPs and PPKs I have so I feel very assured that it is a legitimate original blue job that was administered and polished by a true craftsman. The Kommer Model 4s were for the most part made (production finished around 1940) before the heavy and consistent Allied bombings and the ever increasing pressure by German Armed forces for increased production output that resulted in less well finished and polished side arms--the "Military Blue" finish as it is known. That very small part of me that isn't sure says yes it could be a very old reblue job but nothing very recent and exceptionally well done. Overall , I am satisfied with this pistol and comfortable it has not been messed with by an amateur or back yard "hobby" gunsmith type! Thanks for your input and compelling me to take a more discriminating look at this Kommer in terms of finish condition.

 

[Lloyd in Vegas]

Fritz,

That is a very good question about the very shiny high polish blue finish on this Kommer of mine and I have certainly wrestled with that question. I have compared it to another one (earlier model without cocking indicator pin) and it seems identical in terms of the very shiny blue polish finish. It is certainly possible that it is a old well administered high polish re blue finish. It however, does not exhibit the re bluing type results you typically expect to see especially with a pistol that has such a glossy high polish finish. The corner edges and lateral slide edges both on frame and slide that transition 90 degrees are crisp and retain their sharpness and are not rounded even under high magnification. All pistol markings and stampings are crisp and sharp and none of the markings or slide legend words show any weakness, diminishment, shallowness or unevenness one would expect from a re bluing the requires considerable heavy polishing. Also, all the parts that should be non blued are. The blue wear patterns are consistent with a pistol that has been holstered repeatedly and manipulated and there are no scars or abrasions that have been blued over. The very high polish blue surface looks identical to a number of pre war or early war PPs and PPKs I have so I feel very assured that it is a legitimate original blue job that was administered and polished by a true craftsman. The Kommer Model 4s were for the most part made (production finished around 1940) before the heavy and consistent Allied bombings and the ever increasing pressure by German Armed forces for increased production output that resulted in less well finished and polished side arms--the "Military Blue" finish as it is known. That very small part of me that isn't sure says yes it could be a very old reblue job but nothing very recent and exceptionally well done. Overall , I am satisfied with this pistol and comfortable it has not been messed with by an amateur or back yard "hobby" gunsmith type! Thanks for your input and compelling me to take a more discriminating look at this Kommer in terms of finish condition.

 

[Dgiz]

Hey Pancho, great addition! Lets see if someone else can add some info on their Kommers. Lloyds Kommer shows all the signs of the factory commercial bluing. Although I am not an expert on this, his pistol looks similar to mine. It has some high edge holster wear that is consistant with a pouch style holster. I am expecting a Kommer holster in the mail in the next few weeks from the gentleman who owned mine..not sure what the holster looks like, but it is supposed to be the one my Kommer came home in....I will post photos when I get it.
Dean

 

[Dgiz]

Hey Pancho, great addition! Lets see if someone else can add some info on their Kommers. Lloyds Kommer shows all the signs of the factory commercial bluing. Although I am not an expert on this, his pistol looks similar to mine. It has some high edge holster wear that is consistant with a pouch style holster. I am expecting a Kommer holster in the mail in the next few weeks from the gentleman who owned mine..not sure what the holster looks like, but it is supposed to be the one my Kommer came home in....I will post photos when I get it.
Dean

 

[Dgiz]

Pancho...mine does not have an assembly number on the barrel retaining bushing.
Dean

 

[Dgiz]

Pancho...mine does not have an assembly number on the barrel retaining bushing.
Dean

 

[Laughing_Guest]

I had just purchased one of these pistols a few days ago. The day I bought it I took it to the range and it performed very well, but in the end the last time I intended to load he magazine for the day it decided to fail. The magazines floor plate busted straight off he magazine right along the weld. I currently am trying to fix it. Is there any other magazines that will fit it or any easy way to get a magazine for it? thanks

 

[moosedog]

Thats going to be a hard one to find. Your just going to have to beat the bushes to find one.
You may want to start by posted a "want ad" on this forum and others. Good luck.