[Guest]

Hi, I am new to collecting and I have acquired a few German and Czec. pistols I would like help with. I don't know if this is the right forum for the CZ and 38h, but I'll ask on all anway. First I have a DWM Luger,9mm, no apparent chamber date. I disassembled it and all #s match,SN 91xx,w /xx on small parts.on the front strap is P.M.225. ,the 225 being smaller then the roman cap P.M. . It appears to have the original finnish(80%),sear safety,marked GESICHERT in top position,wood checkered grips and a old nickel finnished mag,wood base, no #'s, but a script R or K on lower back of mag body.Holster that came w/it is a brown leather,hard shell, front dyed black and stamped AKAH Berlin in back. tool is in pouch, old and unmarked. Next pistol is a Sauer&Sohn 38h,marked as follows. J.P. Sauer&Sohn Suhl CAL.7.65 on leftside of slide,no safety, and on rt side is the word Patent and what looks like a later stamping(very neat) Gewehr Richter over Cottbus.The right rear of frame is marked w/ SN 261xxx over a crown N proof. The sights have old traces of paint on them,red back,yellow front. The finnish is about 85 to 90%,very finely finnished,unlike late war.Grips are black, JPS logo on left.Last is a CZ .380,left frame circle CZ J(lion image)37, CESKA ZBROJOVKA A.S. v PRAZE, on top of slide.SN.166xxx on frame.Thank you!(x's in SN's are put in by me,don't know if this is proper protocall,if offensive,my appologies)

 

[Edward Tinker]

x's are okay, and I collect weimar police like you have. Don't have time right now, hopefully someone can come by and help, otherwise, I can get to it later!

Ed

 

[donmaus]

Mark,

Re: Your Luger
I am researching Weimar police marks and also have a Luger with the grip strap marked "P.M.477." Although some may dispute it, I'm convinced the "P.M." represents the Polizeischule (Police Academy) at Münster. I hope to present convincing proof of this soon and your information is a key addition to the evidence. (The number in the mark is the academy's weapon number.)

Your comment about the "...sear safety, marked GESICHERT..." leads me to believe you are referring to the normal thumb safety and not the Schiwy sear safeties that were added to police Lugers beginning in 1933. It would help me immensely if you would confirm whether or not your Luger has/had a Schiwy sear safety and/or magazine safety installed. Mine does not, leading me to believe that either some of these police weapons escaped having them installed or they were removed from police service (to the Army?) before implementation of the 1933 orders.

If you are not familiar with the Schiwy and magazine safeties, hopefully, some kind soul will post a link to photos/explanations of these. I know they are there but don't have the information at hand.

 

[Ron Smith]

Mark, This is the sear safety Don refered to. A flat dog-leg bar that rests on top of the sideplate. Also is the grip notched at the top, directly below the sideplate and just above the magazine release button? Also, note the small verticle light colored mark on the receiver just behind the sideplate.

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Ron

 

[donmaus]

Thanks, Ron.

 

[jacobtowne]

A question about the Czech pistol: are the slide serrations vertical or diagonal?
Another: Are there any markings on the front grip strap?
JT

 

[Guest]

Thanks Guys,I think I was wrong about the "sear safety", it has no hole for a mag safety and it looks like a standard safety,not like the one pictured.The CZ has no other markings on it other than descibed,no marking on fr. strap,the slide serrations are diagonal and 5 in #. Any other info on the Luger or the other two would be greatly appreciated.

 

[donmaus]

Mark,

Yet another question to help identify your Luger. Does this gun have a lower-case script suffix letter beneath the serial number on the front of the frame beneath the barrel? If it does and you have any trouble identifying it, posting a photo of that area would allow the experts on this site to interpret it.

Alternatively, you could go to the LugerForum http://www.lugerforum.com/ and in the Technical Information section find lists and photos of suffixes.

 

[Guest]

Don, under the sn is a script lower case y. I went to the link and verified that. I also did't mention that the frame has a shoulderstock lug and lanyard loop. thanks

 

[donmaus]

Mark,
To my knowledge, there were no DWM Lugers produced with the suffix "y". If someone knows differently, I'll certainly stand corrected.

These suffixes can sometimes be hard to read, especially if they were not well struck. My Luger is suffix "q" but the tail is missing. It generated a fair amount of online discussion but was eventually diagnosed based on my posting a photo. I recommend you do the same. If you're concerned about revealing the full serial number, you could put masking tape over the number.

 

[Guest]

Don, I looked again and I'm pretty sure it is a y, I'll try and get a photo of it on soon. Thanks

 

[jacobtowne]

The Czech pistol sounds like a vz24 accepted in 1937. They made about 183,000 before the occupation. The 1/1/39 inventory showed 171,756 vz24s on hand for the Army and Air Force. Others went to the gendarmerie.
JT

 

[donmaus]

Mark, any progress on a photo of the suffix?

 

[Guest]

Don,I'll try to get a photo of it up by this weekend,sprained my ankle and it's tough getting around right now,...JMC

 

[donmaus]

Mark, hope your ankle gets better soon. In the meantime, you might relook at the renditions and photos of suffixes, particularly the "r". It is very cryptic (scriptic?) and could be interpreted as a "y".