Jan C. Still Lugerforums banner
1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,480 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If anyone collects data on these pieces.....

Lunch time was good to me on Friday.
In addition to picking up an FL Slebstlader, and buying another one while picking up the first, I also bought a Sauer M1913, serial number 59704. (different place, but a great day all round !!!!)
It has a small Imperial fraktur mark next to the crown-N.
Condition is about 80%.

If you need any other info, I'd be glad to help.

Regards, Ned
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,480 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Rich, I should take your comment about taking a "wallet breather" to heart.
However, I've been falling into them recently, so what are you supposed to do?


Jan, I'm picking the piece up later this week, and will be glad to provide any markings that you are looking for.

Just curious, what is the ratio of Imperial marked pieces to unmarked pieces?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
249 Posts
Ned-

Referring to Jim Cate's JP Sauer & Sohn Volume II,
the lowest recorded Imperial marked example was at
#22939, and the highest reported one was #85467.
Within that range, there were a total of 45 pistols
listed in the book's table. Of those, 23 had German
Army acceptance stamps. So of wartime production,
roughly half of those known are military procured.

This may be a bit misleading, though, as those which
were issued to soldiers would seem to be more likely
to have been captured and end up in U.S. collections
than those which were sold on the commercial market.
(At least that would be my own supposition...)

Besides that, the production of this model continued
until the 162 thousand serial number range. Adding in
the twenty thousand before the war, this would mean
only 15% to 20% of the total run were purchased by
the German military authorities.

Rich M.

P.S. - More accurate numbers may well be available
since this book was published back in 2000.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,271 Posts
Rich,

you are right, that 23 of 45 Sauer 1913s listed in volume II of the Sauer book had Imperial Army acceptance marks. But your assumption, that we can make an estimation, that 50% of the serail number range 2x,xxx to 85,xxx will have been Imperial accepted might be a little bit too optimistic. Not only, because 45 of 60,000 is no solid basis for a statistical interpretation. Unfortunately! Moreover, the waste majority of the Imp accepted Sauers can be found in the 7x,xxx to 85,xxx range (most probably made in 1918), while in lower blocks only a few Imperial accepted Sauers can be found.

Also, before the beginning of WWI there weren't made that many (20,000) Sauers. Somewhere in volume II (don't have the book at hand right now) is discussed a letter of Gerhard Bock in which he is mentioning, that the German army did accept the Sauer 13 only after deletion of the additional mag safety, what is the characteristic feature of the Sauer 13, 1st variation, which can be found in the serial number range 1 to 9,5xx approximately. So, this change of design must have been carried out after the beginning of the war; Jim Cate and I do believe, somewhen in early/mid 1915. I don't know, how many were made before WWI but a total of approximately 6,000 to 8,000 seems to be a realistic assumption.

All this is (unfortunately!) speculation. But it is a fact, that Sauers whaving Imperial acceptance markings are rare...

Regards

Martin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,480 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well, my new baby is home with me tonight.
There are no extrordinary additional marks on the pistol....
Serial number 59704.
Crown-N's
And the Imperial fraktur that is located just to the rear of the frame Crown-N on the right hand side, and reads in the same direction as the Crown-N

That's it.

Let me know what else you might need.

Regards, Ned
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
249 Posts
Another reason that Army marked specimens may be over-
represented, is that they are the exception rather than
the rule. That is, they are more likely to be reported
when found, because they are scarcer and more valuable.

For example, my own Sauer is number 37210. I've never
posted it at this forum because it is rather ordinary.
Strictly commercially marked, it lacks the secondary
safety, but is otherwise pretty unremarkable to me.

In any case, Jan Still's Volume One estimated Army
procurement as being less than ten thousand guns.
It appears you have another nice collectible.

Congrats!
Rich M.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Two more for Mr. Sill -
Serial number 53747. Imperial fraktur located below (pistol held level) and in the same direction as the C/N proof just behind the trigger guard on the frame. All other markings standard.

Serial number 60637. Imperial fraktur located behind (pistol held level) and in the same direction as the C/N proof just behind the trigger guard on the frame. All other markings standard.
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top