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Looking for help to ID this Luger please, I know it's 9 mm, stamped with 1918, and serial number is 2726, with matching holster and two matching magazines. The side plate doesn't match, how can I get one that's blued or with 26? Added two more pictures to show the whole gun with slide plate and safety.
 

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Chad, Your take down lever is off a Swiss maybe? It ain't right either. Your pistol WAS an Army in WW1 but was then conscripted to Police use. The sear safety put on by Police has been removed. You have a very interesting Simson magazine!
 

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Jerry is correct that your take down lever (locking block) is not original. The sear bar hood was drilled for a sear safety that may have been removed or never installed. Hard to tell for sure but the left grip looks to have been modified for a magazine safety that is also missing.

IF the receiver is DWM, your pistol was originally an Artillery model with an 8 inch barrel. IF it was an Erfurt receiver, then the receiver was notched as ordered by military directive but left the factory with a 4 inch barrel. As the receiver was scrubbed of Imperial proofs and marked during the Weimar Republic or early Nazi period, there's no way to tell for certain who made the receiver from your pictures. However, note the Crown/RC mark on the right side of the receiver. You'll find far more of them on Erfurt Lugers than on DWM. Not definitive proof that it's an Erfurt receiver but possibly a clue.

Finding a side plate marked number 26 is possible but likely not easy.
 

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That shiny sideplate is easily reblued with an appropriate rust blue process. The DWM on the matching numbered toggle suggests it is a DWM and, as Doubs pointed out, originally had an artillery barrel, converted to a 4 inch long 9 mm police barrel when it was reworked into a police pistol post war. Interesting pistol. You may be able to find a take lever from a DWM.
 

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The receiver is 1918-dated armory spare made by Erfurt, as determined by the crown/RC and the two empty crowns on the right recveiver.

The receiver/toggle assembly itself is a Weimar police assembly. It was barreled by the Polizeischul für Technische und Verkur (PTV, Police School for Technology and Transport) before 1934; the eagle on the receiver and barrel are the police proof mark. The receiver has been drilled for a police sear safety, which has been removed. The sideplate is a nickeled part from another pistol. A sideplate for a sear safety is cut in the top for the safety, it is a fair speculati0n that the sear safety was removed when this sideplate was added. Take the pistol apart and see if there is a corresponding sear safety hole drilled under the sideplate. This sideplate cannot be refinished without first removing the nickel plateing.

What is the serial number on the front of the frame? The left grip is relieved for a magazine safety. The photographs do not show whether there is evidence for its presence. Removing the sideplate and left grip will reveal this.

The takedown lever is of East German manufacture.

It is hard to gauge the authenticity of the holster and magazine markings.

--Dwight
 

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I would leave the side plate alone. It could have been imported with it, just the way it is.
I respectfully wish to argue otherwise. This side plate, first & foremost may not even work on this pistol. Replacements like these are always questionable for function.
Secondly, it is like a pimple on a pretty girl. It screams "get it fixed!" It just looks bad.
 

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With an East German takedown lever, this was re-purposed in the Cold War era. It could be absolutely correct for its last issuance. Again, I would resist the urge to change it if the trigger pull releases the sear properly. It is likely as correct as it is possibly incorrect. No way to know, but why risk making it incorrect for the sake of aesthetics?
 

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There is no marking evidence on this pistol which would suggest "re-purposing in the Cold War era." It is not "correct" over-all for any recognized usage era other than Weimar police. Everything about this pistol suggests that the sideplate and takedown lever are random replacements from 100 years worth of aging.

If you want it for a shooter, and it shoots, great. If you want something which "looks" better, find a period takedown lever and a blued sideplate which fits and functions. Actual collectibility rests with authenticity of the magazines and holster, which are not yet addressed.

--Dwight
 

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Ref the magazines - one is a "Simson' replacement magazine, was a replacement probably for the original wood mag. And the #1 signifies the 'first' magazine. The second, should be a #2 or at the worst, blank.

It is likely NOT for this gun, or was 'matched' up to it at some point. Who knows where. Technically if you ever sell it, sell it as a single matching mag, with a 'possible' second matching mag - leaves it open. Personally, at first glance, both magazines look correct to me, but I can't imagine (but anything is possible) that it was carried that way during duty.
A what if, could be they thought they lost the #1 mag and it was replaced and then found - but no one will ever know.

Ed

PS - Dwight, I think the cold era remarks are for these different looking eagles on the right....
....... IMG_3308.jpg
 

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PS - Dwight, I think the cold era remarks are for these different looking eagles on the right....
....... View attachment 625059
To me the eagles look to be closest to the 1891 proof eagles that were in use until the 1939 proof laws were enacted. The receiver stamp appears to have a crown above it which is correct while the barrel stamp may be missing the crown due to curvature of the barrel.
 

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Cf. Wirnsberger. The 1891 proof eagle was for black powder, and after final proof was accompanied by c/U. These eagle proofs never occur on Lugers. There were a number of different eagles used for non-commercial proof in the Weimar era, for the police and otherwise; they seem to have been devised ad hoc, and only some have been systematically attributed. Any similarity in detail--and frankly, not very much--between this eagle and the 1891 eagle would be coincidental in that the German national symbol is the eagle, displayed, and so similarity is expected. By the time of the Weimar era, and specifically after the 1911-1912 administrative change to the c/N nitro proof, the 1891 eagle was long out of use except for shotguns.

Surprisingly, it is the East German Suhl proof eagle which bears the most resemblance to the 1891 mark, accompanied by the requisite c/U stamp.

Always remembering that the Imperial army proof eagles have no bearing on this discussion.

--Dwight
 

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The holster is without doubt authentic..I can't say authentic in it's entirety because if the poor presentation. But yes the holster is period. The magazines look good to me as well from what little can be seen of them. The number fonts are different but being likely renumbered in a Police armory that is not unusual. The one on the left is a renumbered Simson.
 

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...what makes it difficult to know the authenticity of the holster and magazines? I do know the serial numbers match on those.
You have engaged a fairly advanced topic. In order to determine authenticity it is necessary to rectify all the relevant characteristics, in the context of Luger collecting. Take, for instance, serial numbers. It is a sad fact that one of the easiest ways to forcibly add value to a Luger's collectibility is to alter or add magazine and holster serial numbers to match a pistol. Lets examine the magazines which accompany your gun.

It is evident, on the basis of the photos we have seen thus far, that this is a Weimar police Luger. Universally, Weimar police practice was to number their magazines 1, for the primary magazine, an 2 for the spare (and sometimes 3 or 4, depending on how many magazines might have been issued for the pistol). Your magazines are both numbered 1. This immediately brings forth the possibility that one of the magazines has been "force matched." The mag base photograph suggests that a number may have been removed from the e/6 marked magazine, and the base renumbered. This is something which absolutely requires hands-on examination.

The holster is police pattern, but there is no starburst or Nazi police acceptance stamp. There is an unidentifiable mark which is obscured by lighting glare which may be informative. The holster serial number is subject to the same force-match consideration as the magazines. It is useful to be able to compare it to the serial numbers on other holsters to determine if the stamps are sufficiently similar.

Where did you come by this pistol rig? Do you know if it was actually collected all together? Do you know its purported collection history?

I do not purport to make any judgements about the authenticity of these magazines and holster. I have tried my best to answer your actual question.

--Dwight
 

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"The holster is police pattern, but there is no starburst or Nazi police acceptance stamp. There is an unidentifiable mark which is obscured by lighting glare which may be informative. The holster serial number is subject to the same force-match consideration as the magazines. It is useful to be able to compare it to the serial numbers on other holsters to determine if the stamps are sufficiently similar."

And sometimes we are just wound too tight! Both of these magazines have age & patina. If I were going to fake a Police magazine I sure as heck wouldn't start with a Simson! The holster serial font matches the right hand mag. Even a hands on inspection of the Simson mag may not be definitive.
Police holsters marked to pistols are common. The obscured marking I think Dwight is talking about is likely a Technical Police School mark. Not all Police holsters have Starbursts or Police eagles. A person would have to be a real dummy to fake a serial #on the back of a Police holster! No added value there I can comprehend. Especially on a pistol with an East German take down lever and a shiny as a new nickel mismatched side plate. Not really a good candidate for a lot of monkey business IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Where did you come by this pistol rig? Do you know if it was actually collected all together? Do you know its purported collection history?
--Dwight
Thank you Dwight, and all others who have helped. My grandfather served in WW II and picked it up there. He has since passed away so I'm unable to get any more details.
 
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