Jan C. Still Lugerforums banner
1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,402 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
NORWEGIAN M1914 (P657n), SN 30195

The Norwegian Model 1914 was a modified copy of the United States Model 1911 and was manufactured under lisence by Kongsberg Vaponfabrik, located at Konsberg, Norway. They were produced for the Norwegian Military from 1917 to 1939. All are in 11.25mm caliber (.45 A.C.P.).

On April 9, 1940 an air-ground Blitzkrieg was launched against Norway by Germany. The German Military realized a quick victory after a few weeks of fighting. Narvik in Northern Norway, was another matter and after fierce naval battles the combined British, French, and Polish forces withdrew and all of Norway fell on June 10, !940.

According to factory correspondence from 1941 to 1945 a total of 8223 M1914 pistols were produced at Konsberg and delivered to the German occupying forces. The Germans designated these the P657n. German inspectors were at the the plant and E/WaA84 acceptance stamped (and test proofed some) the last 935 occupation pistols produced. These are found in the 29615 to 30535 serial range and dated 1945. (See Axis Pistols page 76 to 79 for more information)



Download Attachment: 1900DWMRADOMHP451.jpg
44.16KB
Figure 1. Norwegian P657n, serial number 30195. Left side. These bear a black parkerized finish and black painted checkered hardwood grips. It has a grip safety and the magazine has a lanyard loop.


Download Attachment: 1900DWMRADOMHP452.jpg
37.49KB
Figure 2. Norwegian P657n, serial number 30195. Details of the slide markings. It bears the Konsberg Crown/K crest above its serial number and the E/WaA84 German acceptance stamp to the left of the trigger guard..


Download Attachment: 1900DWMRADOMHP453.jpg
42.69KB
Figure 3. Norwegian P657n, serial number 30195. Right side. The 1945 date is on the slide.



Download Attachment: 1900DWMRADOMHP454.jpg
44.02KB
Figure 4. Norwegian P657n, serial number 30195. Shown with issue holster.


Download Attachment: 1900DWMRADOMHP455.jpg
40.65KB
Figure 5. Norwegian P657n issue holster, front.


Download Attachment: 1900DWMRADOMHP456.jpg
48.35KB
Figure 6. Norwegian P657n issue holster, back.


Download Attachment: 1900DWMRADOMHP457.jpg
35.42KB
Figure 7. Norwegian P657n issue holster, with pistol. This holster has an interesting lift strap. Pulling up on the flap lifts the pistol.


Download Attachment: 1900DWMRADOMHP458.jpg
56.41KB
Figure 8. Norwegian P657n issue holster showing details of the lift strap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Hi there Jan

About the 1945 deliveries to the Germans.
Totally 920 pistols were accepted.
Deliveries:
March 29 1945 29615 - 29814 200 pistols AOK Norwegen
April. 17 1945 29815 - 29994 200 pistols AOK Norwegen
30015 - 30034
April. 14 1945 29995 - 30014 20 pistols AOK Norwegen
April. 23 1945 30045 - 30125 100 pistols AOK Norwegen
30145 - 30154
April. 24 1945 30125 - 30144 100 pistols AOK Norwegen
30155 - 30234 Marine Art Waffenkommando, Oslo
April. 26 1945 30235 - 30334 100 pistols AOK Norwegen
May. 4 1945 30335 - 30434 100 pistols AOK Norwegen
May 5 1945 30435 - 30534 100 pistols AOK Norwegen

Total WaA accepted 920 pistols
These pistols were ordered by the Germans November. 5 1943
AOK = Admiral Norwegen

Reports from Kongsberg Arms Factory shortly afther the war (July. 1 1945)listed totally 7.660 pistols delivered to AOK Norwegen and 600 pistols delivered to "Admiral Norwegen" during the war. Totally this is oficially deliverd from Kongsberg 8.260 pistols. This does not match Kongsbergs own records. Here it says that 700 pistols were delivered to the "Kriegsmarine" (Marinenartillerizeugamt, Oslo)shortened "MAZA".These were pistols with serial numbers 23265 - 23314, 23465 - 23514, 23615 - 23664, 23765 - 23814, 23915 - 23964,24065 - 24114, 24215 - 24264, 24365 - 24414, 24515 - 24564, 24665 - 24714, 24815 - 24864, 24965 - 25014, and 25015 - 25114.

These pistols were sendt from Kongsberg in lots of 50 pistols during the periode August/October 1941. The last lot on 100 pistols were delivered in November 1941. If we consider those 920 pistols delivered in 1945 (22312 in 1940 to 30534 in 1945)the protocols from Kongsberg shows us that there were totally delivered 7.523 pistols to A.O.K Norwegen. There are no epty rooms in these serial numbers and no double serial numbers.

German orders and deliveries from Kongsberg Arms Factory is like this.
Date. Ordered - Delivered - Date - To
Feb.19 1941 - 950 - 953 - March-May 1941 - AOK Norwegen
Feb.19 1941 - 1050 - 1150 - Aug - Oct 1941 - AOK Norwegen
Feb.19 1941 - 800 - 500 - Nov - Dec 1941 - AOK Norwegen
Unknown - 700 - 700 - Aug - Nov 1941 - MAZA Norwegen
May.7 1941 - 4000 - 4000 - Dec 41-June 42 - AOK Norwegen
Nov. 5 1943 - 5000 - 920 - March-May 1945 - AOK Norwegen

Totally 12500 8223

Deliveries 1941 to 1942
If you guys will like to have all deliveries from Kongsberg to the Germans down to basic let me know and I will do this (dates, serial numbers quantity and so on).

It will go like this

First Order

March.22 1941 22312-22311 100 pistols Armeeoberkommando Norwegen
March.25 1941 22412-22414 3 pistols Armeeoberkommando Norwegen
April.8 1941 22415-22664 250 pistols Armeeoberkommando Norwegen
April.22 1941 22665-22814 150 pistols Armeeoberkommando Norwegen
April.29 1941 22815-22964 150 pistols Armeeoberkommando Norwegen
May.3 1941 22965-23114 150 pistols Armeeoberkommando Norwegen
May.10 1941 23115-23264 150 pistols Armeeoberkommando Norwegen

Totally 953 delivered in this first order

If rest of these war deliveries, let me know.

Best regards
Per
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
Clawson indicates 921 Heereswaffenamt pistols in 1945, but seems he is including pistol #30535. Per indicates 920 Heereswaffenamt pistols, and that pistol #30535 is not in that group.

Also, it's important to note the requisite barrel markings. This one has the correct barrel markings. Unfortunately, I have seen a WaA M1914 lacking the barrel WaA and Ser.#, probably because the barrel had been replaced.

Download Attachment: NorwayM1914WaA-1.jpg
155.32 KB
Download Attachment: NorwayM1914WaA-2.jpg
72.14 KB
Download Attachment: NorwayM1914WaA-3.jpg
75.49 KB
Download Attachment: NorwayM1914WaA-4.jpg
66.85 KB
Download Attachment: NorwayM1914WaA-5.jpg
110.06 KB
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,402 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Per Mathisen
Thanks for a very detailed serial number listing of the Norwegian 45.

"If you guys will like to have all deliveries from Kongsberg to the Germans down to basic let me know and I will do this (dates, serial numbers quantity and so on)." Yes, I would like to see the detailed listing.

"That means that yours serial number 30195 was in the shipment from Kongsberg April.24 1945 to the Marine Art Waffenkommando,Oslo." It is very interedting to have the exact date that my Norwegian 45 was shipped.
Do you have a little more detailed description of the Marine Art Waffenkommando,Oslo?
Thanks
Jan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Hi there

First of all; Factory letters for Kongsberg Colts are awailable from the following address;

Kongsberg-Coltens Venner.
Postboks 63,
N-1313 VØYENENGA.
Norway

These letters costs: Nkr. 200.00 around $ 30.00

Barrels for the WaA marked 1945.

These barrels were marked with the last three didgits of the serial number of the pistol, underneath the chamber. The original barrel also were marked with the WaA stamp E/84 on the left side of the barrel. Also to be found is the mark of the inspector (Jørgen Bjørnholdt). He also controlled these pistols in 1941 and 1942.
Unfortunate these pistols were used (many of them)in the Norwegian Navy up to 1992. During this time many of them had a replacment- barrel. So the ammount of pistols with the original barrel are very few. But sorry to say around 3600 pistols went to the US in 1957 and thanks to this you guys over there have some of them.

For those of you collecting these Norwegians, do you know that in 1945 magazines were made without the loop? The bottom plate is welded to the bottom with 4 points. Only the two holes for the loop are left in the bottom plate. These magazines are rare , because wery few of them were made. So something new to look for.

Jan; When it comes to the Marine Art Waffenkommando in Oslo, little information exists. This was a depot for the Kriegsmarine in Oslo,Norway that most of the military equipment for the German Navy went through.Most of these Norwegian Colts went to the German Navy.
If I will be able to find ot anything in the future I will let you know.

Now some moore.

1941 continuing

August.1 1941-23265-23314-50 pistols- Marineartillerizeugamt,Oslo
August.1 1941-23315-23364-50 pistols- Armeeoberkommando Norwegen
August.6 1941-23365-23464-100 pistols-Feldzeugstab Nord,AOK Norwegen
August.9 1941-23465-23514-50 pistols-Marineartillerizeugamt, Oslo
August.16 1941-23515-23614-100 pistols-Feldzeugstab Nord,AOK Norwegen
August.16 1941-23615-23664-50 pistols-MAZA Oslo (Admiral Norwegen)
August.23 1941-23665-23764-100 pistols-Feldzeugstab Nord,AOK Norwegen
August.23 1941-23765-23814-50 pistols-MAZA Oslo (Admiral Norwegen)
Sept.1 1941-23815-23914-100 pistols-Feldzeugstab Nord,AOK Norwegen
Sept.1 1941-23915-23964-50 pistols-MAZA, Oslo (Admiral Norwegen)
Sept.8 1941-23965-24064-100 pistols-Feldzeugstab Nord,AOK Norwegen
Sept.8 1941-24065-24114-50 pistols-MAZA,Oslo (Admiral Norwegen)
Sept.18 1941-24115-24214-100 pistols-Feldzeugstab Nord,AOK Norwegen
Sept.18 1941-24215-24264-50 pistols- MAZA,Oslo (Admiral Norwegen)
Sept.22 1941-24265-24364-100 pistols-Feldzeugstab Nord,AOK Norwegen
Sept.22 1941-24365-24414-50 pistols-MAZA, Oslo (Admiral Norwegen)
Sept.30 1941-24415-24514-100 pistols-Feldzeugstab Nord,AOK Norwegen
Sept.30 1941-24515-24564-50 pistols-MAZA,Oslo (Admiral Norwegen)
Oct.4 1941-24565-24664-100 pistols-Feldzeugstab Nord.AOK Norwegen
Oct.4 1941-24665-24714-50 pistols-MAZA, Oslo (Admiral Norwegen)
Oct.14 1941-24715-24814-100 pistols-Feldzeugstab Nord.AOK Norwegen
Oct.14 1941-24815-24864-50 pistols-MAZA,Oslo (Admiral Norwegen)
Oct.21 1941-24865-24964-100 pistols-Feldzeugstab Nord.AOK Norwegen
Oct.21 1941-24965-25014-50 pistols-MAZA,Oslo (Admiral Norwegen)
Nov.11 1941-25015-25114-100 pistols- MAZA,Oslo (Admiral Norwegen)

Total: 700 pistols ordrered by MAZA
1150 pistols ordered by A.O.K Norwegen

To be continued

Regards
Per
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Hi there
You will find these deliveries also in this new book in the chapter of the production during the war. These deliveries is a cind of old news here in Norway.
The records of Kongsberg Arms Factory are well taken care of here in Norway and they also are nearly complete.
Per
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
Permitis,
I thought all of the M1914 mags were supposed to have a lanyard loop?
Yes, no ?
ALso, If I want to get a letter on my pistol, can I write it in English, and should I send US dollars in cash, a personal check, what form of payment?

Jan,
I think Clawson's big book has a bunch of info on the M1914. I don't own the book ($500), but have had folks send me info from their copy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
About the Norwegian Colt pistols

Jan.
Yust out is a new book about these Norwegian Colt pistols, but unfortunate it is only written in Norwegian. no english text at all.
The title is; Kongsberg Colts by Karl E. Hanevik. Most of the book is about; Trials and Norwegian test/Norwegian made pistols. around 55 pages is about the Kongsberg production. Again mostly old news. But the Norwegian trial leading to the adoption of the Colt pistol is interesting reading. The pages about Norwegian test pistols, made by Krag and so on is very interesting. I think the author could have made a book only with this stuff. Also a interesting chapter about holstersis are to be found.

Factory letters: Of course you can write these people in English. When it comes to payment I am not sure. I will ask these people and let you know later. ok?

Magazines; Yes you are right. Norwegian magazines has a lanyard loop, but in 1945 some magazines were made without this loop. Only the two holes remain in the bottom plate. These magazines are rare and hard to come by.

Regards to you all
Per
 

·
Sponsor of Gunboards
Joined
·
1,522 Posts
I am anticipating the purchase of a 1945 dated Norweigen Model 1914. Have not seen any for sale, so would like to get an idea of price. For one that is advertised as 98-99%, what would be an appropriate price range. I'm looking at a little more that $4,000 and what to know if that is in line. Matching numbers, no holster
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Per Mathisen appears to be a veritable gold mine of information on the 1914 Kongsberg Colts, but I haven't seen any more entries on this subject in some time. I am particularly looking for Per's follow-on listing of deliveries after November 11, 1941, and more information on method of payment (would US postal money order suffice?) for the "factory letter" mentioned in Per's entry on Nov. 22. Also, I'm about to close on purchase of a 1941 which, according to Per's list, was one of those delivered to the "Feldzeugstab, Armeeoberkommando Norwegen." I can pretty well translate the latter phrase, but does anybody know what a "Feldzeustab" is?? (Presumably a supply depot.)

I first entered the forum recently (about the time the entries on these Norwegian Colts were drying up) and have been amazed at the information available here. It was especially helpful - particularly Per's lists - for these 1914s, on which information is otherwise quite limited. Keep up the good work, and let's see some more entries on those Norwegian Colts!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Hi there again

Sorry to mutch other things to do

Feldzeustab Nord AOK Norwegen was the main depot for the Army.
MAZA. Oslo was for the Navy

List follows:

November 15. 1941 25115 - 25244 130 pistols AOK Norwegen
November 22. 1941 25245 - 25374 130 pistols AOK Norwegen
November 29. 1941 25375 - 25504 130 pistols AOK Norwegen
December 6 1941 25505 - 25634 130 pistols AOK Norwegen
December 13. 1941 25635 - 25764 130 pistols AOK Norwegen
December 20. 1941 25765 - 25894 130 pistols AOK Norwegen
December 31. 1941 25895 - 26024 130 pistols AOK Norwegen
Januar 7. 1942 26025 - 26154 130 pistols AOK Norwegen
Januar 13. 1942 26155 - 26304 150 pistols AOK Norwegen
Januar 20. 1942 26305 - 26454 150 pistols AOK Norwegen
Januar 27. 1942 26455 - 26604 150 pistols AOK Norwegen
February 2. 1942 26605 - 26754 150 pistols AOK Norwegen
February 9. 1942 26755 - 26904 150 pistols AOK Norwegen
February 16. 1942 26905 - 27054 150 pistols AOK Norwegen
February 21. 1942 27055 - 27204 150 pistols AOK Norwegen
February 28. 1942 27205 - 27384 180 pistols AOK Norwegen
March 7 1942 27385 - 27564 180 pistols AOK Norwegen
March 14. 1942 27565 - 27744 180 pistols AOK Norwegen
March 21. 1942 27745 - 27924 180 pistols AOK Norwegen
March 28. 1942 27925 - 28104 180 pistols AOK Norwegen
April 10. 1942 28105 - 28284 180 pistols AOK Norwegen
April 15. 1942 28285 - 28374 90 pistols AOK Norwegen
April 21. 1942 28375 - 28524 150 pistols AOK Norwegen
April 28. 1942 28525 - 28704 180 pistols AOK Norwegen
May 6. 1942 28705 - 28884 180 pistols AOK Norwegen
May 13. 1942 28885 - 29064 180 pistols AOK Norwegen
May 20. 1942 29065 - 29244 180 pistols AOK Norwegen
May 27. 1942 29245 - 29394 150 pistols AOK Norwegen
June 3. 1942 29395 - 29574 180 pistols AOK Norwegen
June 3. 1942 29575 - 29614 40 pistols AOK Norwegen

Total 4.500 pistol afther additional order of February 19. 1941
and order of May 7. 1941

This was the total ordres done by Whrmacht in Norway and delivered.

Best regards and a Happy New Year to you all

Per
 
G

·
I had read somewhere that some Kongsbergs produced under German occupation in 1941 and 1942 had a 'painted' finish. Is this correct?

Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Hi there!

Yes this is true. Pistols of the 1941 and 1942 production had this painted (black) finish. Pistols with this finish are found all the way up to serial number 26500. Unfortunate many of these pistols ar later given a new phosphat finish by the Norwegian Army afther the war.

Regards
Per
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top