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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Gents,

a few days ago I bought the following gun.


It is a 6.35 mm Pieper Herstal with black horn grips.
The only information I could find is KÖNIG, who writes in his book "Taschenpistolen, Taschen- und Miniaturpistolen, Eine Auswahl aus 100 Jahren" that this is a Pieper "Neues Modell" (new Model). He says that it was introduced somewhere after 1919. This gun shows a M* proofmark which indicates that the gun was tested by Louis Couchant between 1923 and 1952. Does anyone of you have more information? Does this model have an official name?

I do have a 6.35mm DELU pistol which is very similar. Even the grips look nearly the same.

Regards

Stefan
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
VAC,

thank you very much. The gun on vestpockets.at is a DELU which looks similar and even has nearly the same grips. However the grip safety is totally different.
The gun you show in post #2 is the same model I have. At least I now know that the grips are original.

Regards

Stefan
 

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There's something (though not much) about them in Hogg & Weeks "Pistols of the World" translated into German as "Pistolen aus aller Welt", I believe, where one just like yours is illustrated. If you haven't got a copy I recommend it as useful for identifying strange pistols.

Mike
 

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Stefan, we must be in the same time zone unlike our American friends! Hogg says in his book (sehr empfohlen) that it's a 6.35mm blowback made by a Pieper factory established in Paris during the 1920s, based on the Baby Browning except the barrel is screwed into the frame transom, sold under the trade name "Legia" in France but sold in Belgium as the "New Pieper" but not known whether the N... P... was made in Paris or Liege, normally 6 shot but a 10 shot model was also made, Pieper pistols seem to have died out in the 1920s unable to compete with cheaper models.

Legia, Google tells me, is the name of a Warsaw football team.

Regards, Mike
 

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I have a lot of information on this and will try to structure it. We have in the works (several years away) a new book on PIEPER and all the products. I will not give details away but here is some information that you might find interesting.

These are indeed Delu pistols, made by Delu with minor changes under agreement and marked AEP (Anciens Etablissements Pieper –Old Pieper Establishments). The grips are not coincidence or look-alikes, they are indeed the same grips, with a mold modification to mask the FD (Felix Delu) letters.


To add to previous postings, AEP never had manufacturing plants in France.

The Legia pistol was a Nicholas Pieper design and not AEP, these pistols are different models/ patents and differ quite a bit. Nicholas Pieper had branched off the family business to make his own designs. These pistols are often confused for being identical or similar.

The “Legia” name supposedly comes from the term “Liegeois” meaning “from Liege”. It was a marketing name used by several manufacturers including FN. I am not sure if it ever became a trademark, maybe it was too difficult to trademark as many used it. FN used the Legia name for many of its sporting shotgun shells as well as gun care products.

The Delu / AEP pistol was known as NEW MODEL as referred to in the postings.

I hope this helps.
Anthony
 

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Errors are possible in the translation of the text.

Etablissements Pieper no longer existed after the second world war. However, had a recovery of the business in 1945. Beside the manufacture of rifles and even a development for a sub-machine gun, a very mysterious automatic pistol was produced : this pistol Pieper-Delu is a weapon whose existence had been denied. The old Establishments Pieper after 1945 In 1866, the saga of the Pieper started when the founder of German origin, Henri Pieper, moved to Cork. Became a limited company in 1905, the "Old Establishments Pieper" continued their activity during the Great War of 1914 to 1918. Later, after the German occupation in 1940, the plants Pieper became the part of the German firm Krieghoff in all guns Pieper pocket : models 1908, 1930 and the Pieper-Delu (left to right). manufacturer of weapons for the Wehrmacht. In 1944, after the liberation by the american troops, the plants began returning to the civilian market. Nonetheless, the economic conditions being absolutely disastrous, it could not prevent the cessation of activities. It is necessary to expect the beginning of the year 1954 that the company Pieper was finally bankruptcy. Thus, one of the most famous companies in liege disappeared.

Felix Delu The name " Delu ", corresponds to the " weapons Factory Delu Felix et Cie ". His first address was 38 street Broad Way to Herstal. His trademark was composed of the letters "Co FD" in a circle. Later, the siege of liège was rue César Franck and 56 quai Orban. The company Delu was registered with the bench of test of liege from 1911 to 1914. From 1909 to 1933, Felix Delu put ten belgian patent relating to improvements of revolvers, an automatic pistol (the pistol Pieper-Delu), a process for the manufacture of parts of platinum rifle such as the platinum body cleat, triggers, and aggregates, a shotgun, a process of filling guns rifle. In the 1920s, Felix Delu joined also to the Old Establishments Fetu Defize SA, located quai de Longdoz to Cork. D. In 1924, Felix Delu and the company Fetu-Delize filed a patent common in France under the title " development of grinding machines ". In 1930, the same subject has been dealt with in another patent says " grinding machine according to template "
The gun Pieper-Delu The belgian patent n°296060 14 may 1921 says "automatic pistol" refers to the gun repeatedly presented here. In Germany, a patent was filed by Felix Delu in 1923. However, this patent no. 374752 contains only the first part of the indications of the belgian patent : "automatic Pistol in which the ejection of the sockets is made up by two ejectors arranged on both sides of the axial plane of the weapon, characterized because the two ejectors are fixed to the housing of the weapon. "In effect, the ejection system was a novelty, but the action to eject the spent cartridges fired up could be dangerous for the face of the shooter. In the belgian patent, the other main indications were described thus : "automatic pistol with a dog actuated by a spiral spring housed in the rear part of the handle, characterized because the spring acts on the dog through the intermediary of a rod.Automatic pistol characterized because the weapon is kept safe during the removal of the store in the middle of a room constantly requested to switch in the housing and the block from the rod when it switches in said housing. "The pistol manufactured by Pieper is identical to the pistol Delu, outside of the details of the inserts of the handle and the markings of the slide. Platelets in ebonite correspond to the shape of the gun Delu original. Only the logo "F. D. Co" in a circle has been removed and you see the letters "Co," which will remain unchanged. Extract of the patent Delu set out the mechanism with its spiral spring. The marking of Pieper-Delu on the slide "ANCIENS ETABLISSEMENTS PIEPER HERSTAL – BELGIUM ". In addition, we can see the punches to test the powder ram (" PV ") as well as an indication of the calibre " 6.35 Browning ".
. Cover Page of the patent Delu dating back to 1921 that describes a new automatic pistol. The logo of the Pieper - Delu is a logo Delu incomplete. As regards the markings of manufacturers on the left side of the slide, the gun Delu bears the inscription "FABRIQUE D’ARMES F. DELU & Co LIEGE – BELGIQUE ". On the other hand, the variant Pieper is distinguished by the label "« ANCIENS ETA- BLISSMENTS PIEPER HERSTAL – BELGIUM ". The name of the country written in English indicates that it had considered the market in the United States. The details of the birth of the gun Pieper-Delu remain mysterious. In the 1930s, the firm Delu was likely to be under-treated to the Old Establishments Pieper the manufacture of its guns. As well, there were stocks of parts already manufactured when the war broke out and the factories were occupied by the Germans. After the liberation, we used the existing parts. The new gun was made of the carcasses and slides Delu, supplemented by other parts made in Pieper. The plans of these have been found in the family archives. The technical data Sheet FN 1906 Pieper-Delu Semi-automatic System to cylinder head non-savvy Manufacturer Fabrique Nationale weapons of war Old Establishments Pieper Caliber 6.35 mm (.25 Browning) Capacity 7 rounds (6 in the magazine and 1 in chamber) overall Length 114 mm 106 mm barrel Length 53,5 mm 54,0 mm total Height 76 mm 76 mm Thickness up to 24 mm 21 mm empty Weight 350 g 330 g.
In the Face of the US market, the gun Pieper - Delu was also called the " New Model ". A lot of these guns had been shipped across the Atlantic. At the reception, it was noticed that all the hammers were missing : the return to sender ensued. Thus ended the brief american career of the last gun of the Old Establishments Pieper. Evaluation first Of all, the pistol pocket "Delu" looks like a copy of the FN model 1906, said model officer. In effect, the dismantling of the two weapons is the same way. With the slide locked back, the anterior part of the canon fate of the so-called zipper. Then, turn the cannon to the right of a third of the way around. By pressing the lever of the safety, the slide advance and the main parts will be released. However, the slots for the stop of the slide are different. The FN has two of them, including the one in the rear which is used as security and the one in front is used for the disassembly. The Pieper-Delu presents us with a single slot provided for the disassembly. Since the canon does not have grooves, the free part of the canon is longer compared to the FN.
In this regard , The FN 1906, and the Pieper-Delu with their slides blocked. The barrel of the FN stands out for its grooves make the removal easier. a technical drawing of the Anciens Etablissements Pieper dating back to the 19 April 1946, shows us a barrel of a pistol in caliber 6,35 with exactly the splines in question. We may suspect that they have been deleted in order to reduce the manufacturing cost. The FN as well as the Pieper-Delu are equipped with a safety handle. That is to say, in the case where the weapon is not taken quite firmly in the hand, the trigger remains disabled. In addition, the two models of weapons are put in safety during the removal of the charger. However, the system of the Pieper - Delu is used to arm the dog house even when the charger is removed. Once delivered, the weapon is ready to shoot. On model FN 1906, the ejection port is located on the right side of the zipper. The ejection of the Pieper - Delu is placed at the top of the slide. This corresponds to the statement that is mentioned in the patent in introduissant the eject empty casings to the top. Conclusion The pistol pocket Pieper-Delu was the last handgun manufactured by the Old Establishments Pieper. Derived from the model FN 1906, it presents some new techniques, but looking at the latest models of the famous firm Pieper, this weapon deserves a special mention.
 

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Anciens Etablissements Pieper did exist after 1945! They went out of business in 1954 and the buildings and factory were demolished in 1957.

The Pieper / Delu is reported as being a postwar offering by AEP. I believe that this may be correct as the Model 1930 AEP was offered prewar. It seems or can be concluded that the rights and left over parts and machining jigs of the Delu pistols were acquired after the war. Delu did not recover or restart after the war. I do not know what happened to Felix Delu or when he passed away / or if he even survived the war.

Anthony
 

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Gentlemen, my apologies for hijacking your discussion but you may have information useful to me.

I recently found a New Model Pieper Heestal 6.35 in an old piece of furniture. It was disassembled with small parts in a bag. I assembled the gun but am missing a few parts. The extractor, extractor pin and spring and the "cocking lug".

Do you know of a source for these parts? Or, if parts aren't available, do you have access to detailed technical drawings which would allow me to fabricate the parts?

thanks in advance
 

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Gentlemen, my apologies for hijacking your discussion but you may have information useful to me.

I recently found a New Model Pieper Heestal 6.35 in an old piece of furniture. It was disassembled with small parts in a bag. I assembled the gun but am missing a few parts. The extractor, extractor pin and spring and the "cocking lug".

Do you know of a source for these parts? Or, if parts aren't available, do you have access to detailed technical drawings which would allow me to fabricate the parts?

thanks in advance
May buy a new slide ? ;)

Perhaps the seller will sell only what you need.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=537527903
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/1146770.htm


Vaclav
 

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Stefan , perhaps you are interested in the serial numbers of the pistol Pieper New Model ...

SN 4951 View attachment 146024




Regards

Vaclav
1 а variant of the marking on the slide ... SN 127
SN 350
SN533


2 variant . right side ... SN 4477


3 variant - right side ... SN 4967
2 variant - left side SN 4967




3 variant - right side.,3 variant - left side.,2 variant serrations SN 5921




I'm like a bird Gymnogyps, any carrion delicious ;) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_condor)


Vaclav
 
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