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Police Safeties Question

2095 Views 7 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  donmaus, 
D
Could someone point me to a source for the regulations citing the dates of inception for the sear and magazine safeties, and the date the magazine safety was rescinded?

I'm not looking for someone to tell me the dates (although I may, in the long run), I have been looking for this information and haven't run across it in my own sources. I'm wondering if I've just missed it, or if indeed it is not available on my bookshelf.

--Dwight
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Edward Tinker
Dwight look in Third Reich Lugers, page 109-110, this tells how it came about for the Sear Safety. On page 206 it states:
quote:prussian State Police Orders dated August 30, 1933, and almost certainly adoted later by the National Police. Many also bear the magazine safety which was introduced by the same orders.
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Also in Weimar Lugers, it has Appendix D, page 306, Notes from the Prussian Ministry of the Interior and from Prussian Weapons Manuals, but nothing about the safeties.

Ed
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Jan C Still
Dwight
In addition to the main reference in Third Reich Lugers pointed out by Ed there are additional references on page 196 of Axis Pistols and page 40 and 207 of Weimar Lugers.

The information came from period police documents obtained from official German archives by Joachim Gortz. Someplace in my old book files I have a copy of the document, however these old files are not indexed. The document information is probably in Gortz's book "Die Pistole 08"
Jan
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Heinz
Dwight, in additon to the refernces already sited I also have,Prussian Police orders dated August 30, 1933 order installation of the sear and magazine safety Walter, Luger Story p164, p 208. Als, also secondary.
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D
Thanks, to everybody.

--Dwight
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B
7.65 marked Police Luger

Serial number 9120 m chamber marked 7.65, strap marked S P. Bn. 1419., sear safety, c/n . Luger was rebarreled to 9 m/m at which time 7.65 marking x'd out. barrel is Imperial proofed and numbered, serial x'd out and renumbered to pistol. Question: how frequent is the chamber mark of 7.65 on police Lugers?
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donmaus
Dwight, on pp. 36 and 37 of HWIS, I reference a translation of the September 6, 1933 recording in the Ministerial-Blatt für die Preußische innere Verwaltung of the August 30 directive which included instructions for the various police authorities to respond by October 1 stating the numbers of safeties required by the Revierpolizei and Landjägerei. The necessary safeties would then be mailed to the individual units for installation by local repair facilities. Based on this and the belief that it would have taken several months for all the pistols to be reworked, I am of the opinion that most of the sear and mag safeties were installed in 1934.

I do not have documentation ordering the removal of mag safeties but do have a translation of Reich & Prussian Interior Ministry circular dated 17 June 1936 asking for reports on the effectiveness of the sear and mag safeties by 1 September 1936. I have another translation of an Interior Ministry circular dated 9 September 1937 asking for reports on "realization of the two alterations of all pistols 08 of the complete Ordnungspolizei in pursuance of the circular directive 27 May 1937." I suspect the 27 May directive included orders to remove the mag safety based on the reports submitted earlier.
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donmaus
blcman, this is an inappropriate thread for your question but, to answer it quickly, the Schupo of Bremen apparently used a number of Alphabet DWMs as they came from the factory in 7.65 caliber for some period of time before rebarrelling them in 9 mm. They marked the chambers to avoid confusion with their 9-mm Lugers. Much more about this may be found in Chapter 17 of History Writ in Steel.
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