[Fritz]

PPK sn 318 887k with a strange combination of markings.

It shows the NSDAP RZM marks and the Mod. PPK designation on the left side of the slide.
On the frame is the WaA 359 proof.
On the right side of the slide and the frame are the commercial proof marks E/N.
The numbers inside the slide match those of the frame.

It would be very interesting how this unusual combination comes together.

Every idea is most welcome.

Fritz

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[Pancho]

Nice pistol, Fritz.
If I understand the issue correctly, it is the placement of the RZM mark and the Waffenamt mark on the same weapon. This pistol (318887K) falls within these two parameters:

PPK RZM: From 803300 - 850000K (Marschall p.16).
PPK E/WaA359: Variation #2, from 280275k - 350070k (Still p.41).

Both of these markings, by themselves, make this a rare and pricey pistol

I think that the RZM pistols were availble only for private purchase, and would not be part of a regular Wehrmacht procurement. Have discussed other similar RZM-WaA marked pistols with other collectors, and, if I recall correctly, general consensus is that a privately purchased pistol could be submitted by its owner (soldat or politico) to a weapons office for a WaA inspectors mark. I don't know why this would be done, unless some particular military regulation required it to be inspected, or some politico just found it more prestigious to also have a WaA mark.

I know that in the U.S. Army, I would not have been able to use anything that was not approved military equipment, or I would have been out of uniform. I imagine that the German military, WW2 and now, would be similarly strict about this. For instance, when I see WW2 German pistols or holsters with various medals attached, or idiosyncratic markings carved into the leather or grips, I am very suspicious as to their authenticity. If I were to have altered or modified any of my gear, I guarantee that some officer would have noticed it and chewed me out, maybe even written me up for an article 15.

 

[Jan C Still]

Pancho
Excellent analysis. However, it is not obvious to me that a “privately purchased pistol could be submitted by its owner (soldat or politico) to a weapons office for a WaA inspectors mark.” I am inclined to believe that at the time (to the Germans involved) the Waffen stamp was simply an inspection stamp that had no prestige attached (however much it now appeals to collectors). By the time the E/WaA359 stamp was being utilized, the inspection offices were so busy inspecting new manufactured pistols (to supply an army at war) that such frivolous use of the office to apply retro waffen stamps would not be within the scope of their mandate or practical.
Jan

 

[Marschall]

Hello,
I have my doubts about that gun, too. That combination of stamps does not fit. Plus the fact that the slide has obviously quite heavily reworked (cf. the blunted edges of the grasping grooves and the E/N stamp), whereas the RZM-stamp and the inscription on the lhs. are pretty crisp. Has that been hampered with?
Dieter.

 

[Jan C Still]

Fritz, Marshall and Pancho
There are some differences between Frittz's RZM slide (sn 318887K) and two others shown below.




Download Attachment: RZMPPKFRITZWAA1.jpg
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Figure 1. Frittz's RZM slide (sn 318887K) Note: that the RZM circle is slightly smaller than those below and the middle of the M (in Mod. PPK) middle does not reach the bottom of the line.







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Figure 2. John's RZM slide (sn 825820)Note: the larger RZM circle than Figure 1 above and the middle of the M reaches the bottom of the line.





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Figure 3. Jan's RZM slide (sn 825831)Note: the larger RZM circle than Figure 1 above and the middle of the M reaches the bottom of the line.

Please look at your Walther PPK slides and help determine if these are normal manufacturing variances or something unusual.
Thanks
Jan

 

[Jan C Still]

Fritz, Marshall and Pancho
The Waffen RZM PPK (sn 318887K)shown above is also shown in Rankins Vol III page 157. I have looked at a number of Walthers in my collection and from photographs in various books. Thus far the only Walther PP or PPK to bear the Mod. with the middle of the M not touching the line(see figure 1 above) is the Waffen RZM PPK shown above and on page 137 of Rankins book and the PP RZM shown on page 136 Rankin Vol III. As it is necessary to move the legend to the left to allow space to accomodate the RZM, it appears that a special legend was used for these guns. Apparentally the same stype of M that was used on the earlier RZM slides and almost all Walther PP's and PPK's was not used on the RZM PP and RZM PPK shown on page 136 and 137 of Rankins Volume III.
Jan

 

[Pancho]

Jan,
Interesting observation.
Checked 14 PP and 12 PPK, and found two incidences of the "short M".
It looks like there might be two varieties of the short M.
There is a difference in the "shortness" of the middle of the M.
Note that the short M on the Persian is shorter,
and that the short M of the PP-WaA and the PPK-WaA are the same.

Here are links to the short m pistols on my website.
PP WaA:
http://www.panchogun.com/FVWebPhotos/FV-Walther-PP-WaA359-Military-Blue-5x100px.jpg
PP Persian:
http://www.panchogun.com/FVWebPhotos/FV-Walther-PP-Persian-9mm-5x100px.jpg
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PP-PPK-Short-M.jpg
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[Jan C Still]

Pancho
The Persial PP with the legend on the right side, was also a different (or unusual) legend (like the RZM's). The "short M" was also used on a few PP's.
Thanks
Jan