Prohibition of MilSurps in New Jersey likely includes Lugers

865 Views 28 Replies 15 Participants Last post by EdD, 5 d ago

mrerick

Discussion Starter · 7 d ago

As you know, we avoid any discussion of politics here, and it's important that this thread not go that way.

If you live in the US state of New Jersey, you need to be aware of a law recently passed which has a disturbing impact on those owning any firearms that are military surplus arms made outside the United States.

www.ammoland.com

New Jersey Politicians Enact Largest Gun Ban in U.S. History

NJ has banned millions of rifles, shotguns, handguns, military surplus, & virtually ALL muzzleloaders, black powder guns, antique, air, & BB guns.

www.ammoland.com

The New Jersey law has added prohibitions in an attempt to stop "ghost guns" that are poorly worded:

There are NO exceptions and there is NO grandfathering. This was the largest gun ban ever passed in the history of the United States.
The law bans ALL firearms with a “…firearm frame or firearm receiver …which is not imprinted with a serial number registered with a federally licensed manufacturer…”

Since our Lugers were not made by "federally licensed manufacturers" they are in effect now prohibited.

I suggest that anyone living in or traveling through the US state of New Jersey monitor legal action relating to this law in the future and consider the issue of maintaining such firearms in the state until the issue is resolved.

Reactions: 2

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phila

· #2 · 7 d ago

I take issue with the term “poorly worded”. It is worded exactly with the verbiage that carries the intent of those voting for this. These “issues” explained in the post were brought up numerous times as this was being debated and the majority had no problems with them, the more the merrier. I think implementing this will get very interesting to say the least.

alvin

· #3 · 7 d ago

So, even for American made guns, owners have to pray the manufacturers could stay in business forever.

jeb111

· #4 · 7 d ago

I wonder does this ban cover military surplus weapons that have import marks?
Jim

m1903a3

· #5 · 7 d ago

So if I was stupid enough to live in the Peoples Republic of New Jersey even my Trenton M1861 Rifle-Musket would be illegal because it lacks a serial number even though it was manufactured in New Jersey and originally owned by the state? I'm pretty sure the manufacturer, the Trenton Locomotive Works, was never a "registered" maker.
I assume multiple entities have rushed to court to obtain injunctions against the enforcement of this law pending the Supreme Court consigning it to the dust bin.

Reactions: 4

MAUSER888

· #6 · 7 d ago

jeb111 said:
I wonder does this ban cover military surplus weapons that have import marks?
Jim

The answer would be yes. If not made by a Federally licensed Mfg. then you could in theory get jammed up if owning one. I'm of the opinion that LE will do nothing unless you've committed a crime with one.

We have a similar law about hollow point ammunition too. It's perfectly legal to own and use here in NJ. However if you are caught using it in a crime it becomes illegal and you get an additional charge.

Forgot to add about 6 months ago I had my FFL transfer a P08 i bought from Gumbroker. Transfer went through without incident as usual.

Reactions: 2

phila

· #7 · 7 d ago

Not to beat this horse to death but the basic construct of this legislation violates several established constitutional principles or even specific “no no’s” and these having nothing to do with the second amendment. I’m not an expert on state laws or really anything else but I know it’s very problematic to outlaw something that has long been legal and common behavior or property. As always for all time and across the earth people are always abused until they decide in numbers they will not be.

Reactions: 4

Deathroll

· #8 · 7 d ago

Given how many military surplus weapons there are in the US....I've got to think many of these would pass the "in common use" test. This law would therefore be unconstitutional and will likely be struck down by the courts.

Reactions: 1

Pistol

· #9 · 7 d ago

Ridiculous

Reactions: 1

mhassoun

· #10 · 7 d ago

I would assume that all such legislation is geared toward preventing bad actors of committing crimes with the indicated guns. My question is: how frequent are crimes committed with a P08🤔

Reactions: 2

phila

· #11 · 7 d ago

mhassoun said:
I would assume that all such legislation is geared toward preventing bad actors of committing crimes with the indicated guns. My question is: how frequent are crimes committed with a P08🤔

None of the laws I’ve seen proposed or passed in the last 25 years or so pertaining to firearms have much if anything to do with reducing crime. They have everything to do with removing and or registering (universal background checks) guns held by law abiding citizens only. The so called red flag laws could be a single exception to this but it remains to be seen how it will be implemented and if it is merely a jumping off point to more restrictions that have nothing to do with high risk people with firearms.

Reactions: 2

ricmoran

· #12 · 7 d ago

Back door legislation to disarm. Will it fail? All it takes is an injunction to be filed as this is plain as day, anti 2 A. Air rifles, bb guns and black powder too? Gee, surprised slingshots and stones were not included.

EdD

· #13 · 7 d ago

It is directed at civilian disarmament. Nothing more, nothing less

Reactions: 2

EdD

· #14 · 7 d ago

The purpose is civilian disarmament. As such it is worded perfectly.

Reactions: 1

Navy87Guy

· #15 · 7 d ago

Regardless of the unConstitutional nature of the law and the fact that it is 99% likely to get overturned - that day is probably still years away, and residents of the Garden State need to be on guard against over zealous local prosecutors who want to make hay while the sun is still shining.

Reactions: 3

MAUSER888

· #16 · 7 d ago

ricmoran said:
Back door legislation to disarm. Will it fail? All it takes is an injunction to be filed as this is plain as day, anti 2 A. Air rifles, bb guns and black powder too? Gee, surprised slingshots and stones were not included.

Slingshots are not specifically defined under New Jersey law. Slingshots may also be defined as "weapons" which means anything readily capable of lethal use or inflicting serious bodily injury. Slingshots are a"per se" weapon prohibited under N.JS. 2C:39-3e.

Ain't NJ great?

Reactions: 1

MAUSER888

· #17 · 7 d ago

EdD said:
It is directed at civilian disarmament. Nothing more, nothing less

100% correct. We in fact had a progressive NJ Governor named Jon Corzine who stated publicly while in office that he would like to see NJ as the first "gun free" State in the Union.

Also don't forget then Governor Jim Florio enacted the first "assault " weapons ban here in NJ in 1980 many years before the Federal ban that has since gone away.

NJ Democrats love to ignore our 2A rights I'm sad to say.

When you have a State with 3 million people and 2 million vote Democratic evey election nothing is ever going to change for the better here. Just a sad fact of life in the Garden State.

Reactions: 1

jeb111

· #18 · 7 d ago

I moved from N.J. right after high school 40 yrs ago and remember how tough it was to get a firearm, not so much a long gun but a handgun had to have a permit granted by local law enforcement and that sometimes took a week or even two. It might be different now. IDK.
Jim

EdD

· #19 · 6 d ago

Navy87Guy said:
Regardless of the unConstitutional nature of the law and the fact that it is 99% likely to get overturned - that day is probably still years away, and residents of the Garden State need to be on guard against over zealous local prosecutors who want to make hay while the sun is still shining.

Remember that the notion of "unconstitutiuonality" is simply a legal theory. What is legal or illegal is what is defined by the people with the guns. Thus has it ever been.

The question that will be asked of the Supreme Court is "How many divisions have they?"

JimF

· #20 · 6 d ago (Edited)

MAUSER888 said:
Slingshots are not specifically defined under New Jersey law. Slingshots may also be defined as "weapons" which means anything readily capable of lethal use or inflicting serious bodily injury. Slingshots are a"per se" weapon prohibited under N.JS. 2C:39-3e.

Ain't NJ great?

A few years ago, we here in Connecticut had language in our firearms laws that identified air rifles and sand bags as “firearms.”
(Since when did air rifles have any connection to “fire”?)
It has since been eliminated.
To carry a bag of sand in the trunk of your car (for added traction in the winter) put you in violation of this firearm law!
Lawmakers NEVER think thru the language in the law!

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