Jan C. Still Lugerforums banner
1 - 20 of 32 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There is a Radom pistol with Kriegsmarine markings for sale in US,
it is pre alphabet serial number about 1700.
Please do say what do you think about the KM eagle mark?
Do you think it is genue?

Download Attachment: krs km.JPG
27.12KB
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
1,768 Posts
IMHO, I like neither the eagle nor the fleet markings. The wings don't appear correct and the fleet markings are to far down on the grip strap for me.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I don't like it too, the eagle does not look identical to the
most common Radom KM eagle style known.
It is different for sure from the one I do have on mine Radom.
quote:Originally posted by huggiebear

IMHO, I like neither the eagle nor the fleet markings. The wings don't appear correct and the fleet markings are to far down on the grip strap for me.
 
G

·
I don't know if it's the Kriegmarine Radom that you are referring to; but at the gun show held last weekend at the Dulles Expo Center (Washington, DC) a complete Kriegsmarine Radom rig was for sale by Charles Kaplan, "The Yankee Armorer", Mahwah, New Jersey; Telephone (201) 529-2111. I don't know Mr. Kaplan, have never done business with him and don't know anything about his Radom. However, hope this is of interest to you. Ad Yeaman <rifle123#cox.net>
 

· Registered
Joined
·
550 Posts
* Were all the KM marked Radoms also accepted with a sE/WaA77 mark adjacent to the KM mark?? I noticed the pic leading off this thread does not display the WaA mark in close proximity. Maybe this example has the mark just out of camera view.
* Here's a little refresher for those who may be in the Market. Compliments to our Silver Member "HuggieBear" & Forum participants:
- http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=952
- http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=987
* Anyone know the S/N of Mr. Kaplan's offering?? or the exact number of the one above??
TIA
 

· Registered
Joined
·
492 Posts
I've bought 3 WW2 pistols from Mr. Kaplan over the last 3 or 4 years (HP;PP-RJ;M1914). I found him to be friendly and honest, and willing to dicker on the price. He enjoys talking about pistols. I recall on one occaision, I was not able to interupt his conversation with another buyer, so I moved on to other tables, and when I eventually got back to him, I had forgotten which of his pistols had been of interest. Such is life. Such is collecting WW2 pistols in the 21st century.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
492 Posts
Very interesting.
Apparently, there is a great variety in Kriegsmarine markings. Would be nice to assemble a pictorial with samples of the different styles/types of Kriegsmarine markings. If anyone sends me a photo of such a marking, I will assemble a pictorial and make it available.
Same goes for any VoPo markings.:
Download Attachment: Kriegsmarine-Marking-Variations-Page-1.jpg
245.51KB
Download Attachment: Kriegsmarine-Marking-Variations-Page-2.jpg
133.05KB
 

· Registered
Joined
·
550 Posts
Pancho,
* Super idea as long as we keep separated the unchallenged or verifiably correct from the challenged/questionable marks. For instance, I believe both msv and kk challenged the right hand mark of the trilogy of pictures in your post today. Signed & reasoned challenges not refuted might be acceptible as "questionable" without getting contentious.
* The URL's point to kk's unchallenged and likely correct KM marking and Chris' questionable one (S/N 10287).
* What do you think about a couple of side-by-side columns with Model, Mfg., date(yr??), S/N, & comments(Ex.: "All matching", "frame only", "??")??
* Is the starting example offered by msv the S/N 1705 Kaplan pistol?
* Is the WaA77 always included with the Radom KM's??
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
1,768 Posts
RockinWR ; very asute observation and one which I was tempting to make but much more caustic. Of all the examples of what a correct KM eagle should be like, I have previously posted an example and in some detail I might add, all to the betterment of the collecting fraternity and Paucho elects to insert the one that is most questionable. It is like driving a stake into the heart of the vampire, I don't yet know how to kill such a beast once created. I have talked to some learnt people who have the expertise to detect such reborn creations and on this very Radom and its holster that was present at the Virgina show recently. It was concluded that the Radom was the creation of Waffenmeister Pennsylavinna and with that determination elected not to examined the holster which was assumed to be from the same source. To elect how one is to spend his or her nickle is one thing, to advertise what is given to be correct is another matter entirely. KNOW your subject matter before posting examples to others in what could be construed as giving tacit approval of a bogus example !!!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
550 Posts
Pancho,
* Wood Stake extraction process underway:
* Unsure what previous posting link you're referring to; but, if you'll look above in this thread to my posting of 8/7/04 timed 9:01:31 PM, you will see two links. I think this is what you had in mind...right??
-Post# ID=952 is of Korona50x's(Chris') example [S/N 10287] which both Chris and John questioned the Radom KM marking. Picture enhancement was provided by some guy named Pancho (thankfully) as the initial Web site pictures offered by Chris have disappeared.
- As John has stated, he offered post# ID=987 as an example of correct, original Radom KM mark..."all to the betterment of the collecting fraternity."
* I posted both links to allow a comparison of a questionable KM mark [S/N 10287] to a correct Radom KM mark.
* Trust I got that pinned down OK now. Right John!!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
Not trying to butt in here, but the marking in the original post looks almost engraved to me, not stamped. It is definately not as deep as the other die struck "stampings" I have seen on other German pistols. Lastly the M is not even symmetrical. The right side is smaller than the left. I can't believe a German die maker would have settled for that. My BS alarm is going off big time on this one guys.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
413 Posts
quote:Originally posted by rambob

Not trying to butt in here, but the marking in the original post looks almost engraved to me, not stamped. It is definately not as deep as the other die struck "stampings" I have seen on other German pistols. Lastly the M is not even symmetrical. The right side is smaller than the left. I can't believe a German die maker would have settled for that. My BS alarm is going off big time on this one guys.
You are correct. The "questionable" Radom marking is almost certainly engraved. Most, if not all, of the correct types of Kriegsmarine markings discussed in this thread were pantographed and not diestamped. To my knowledge, none were engraved.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
You see,the problem is that the original Radom navy eagles are engraved.
There is one genue group of the engraved eagles with letter M on the Radom and old mauser pistols identical in look.
The other group is looking different to the first group and to each other I would say as in post before they are questionable.
One of the questionable group is eagle from page 180 of the Axis Pistols book.(the picture)
Look at Pancho's picture post, the bottom left eagle is the real deal.



Download Attachment: 106-0673_IMG.JPG
142.14 KB



quote:Originally posted by rambob

Not trying to butt in here, but the marking in the original post looks almost engraved to me, not stamped. It is definately not as deep as the other die struck "stampings" I have seen on other German pistols. Lastly the M is not even symmetrical. The right side is smaller than the left. I can't believe a German die maker would have settled for that. My BS alarm is going off big time on this one guys.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
4,387 Posts
msv
The KM Radom shown on page 180 of Axis Pistols has been in my collection for more than 20 years and was at that time traced back to its import into the United States with a few other KM Radoms.

In addition to the eagle pantographed on its left slide, it bears a N/323 property number on its front strap and on the bottom of its magazine. Its serial number 5694 fits closely with KM Radoms 5693 and 5895 (see table page 183 Axis Pistols.). It lacks a lanyard loop and has a blued barrel as is typical of KM Radoms.

KM Radom sn 5694, (lacking its lanyard and with a blued barrel), and with property number N/323, is not a questionable KM Radom.
Jan
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top