[huggiebear]

Pictured here is an example of the Reich's Forestry staff holster for a 6.35mm pistol which, although unmarked, is thought to be issued with this holster. I have no knowledge of a marked Forestry pistol but everything has not been identified either correctly or discovered for that matter so further research is in order on this subject. There were three major Forestry organizations within the Third Reich with the Reich Forestry being the major element followed by the Luftwaffe which had its own Forestry element as did the Wehrmacht. The Luftwaffe hunting/gaming regulations which were developed in conjunction with the Forestry initiative are still in effect , unchanged since initial introduction by Goring. Another green holster example in 7.65mm is known which is thought to be the field issue.

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[phosphateb]

Huggiebear..nice pics! R u sure that holster aint fake (lol)

 

[huggiebear]

Yes, I am sure it is real and not a fake. I have had two of these and have seen three others in my past travels.

 

[Lloyd in Vegas]

Huggiebear,

Nice pictures and a beautiful Walther Model 8 third variation pistol. I have always thought that this is one of the most elegant/sleek vest/pocket type pistols ever produced. This is the pistol that gave birth to the Walther PP and PPK line. Thanks for sharing!

 

[phosphateb]

Lets face it, if it is rare, unknown or something collectors never knew about old huggiebear will find that holster and enlighten the educated collectors!

 

[sauerfan]

John,

interesting and most unusual holster. As I am collecting also items relating to German hunting associations and German foresters, I was always interested in these green holsters. I haven't seen any photos or documentation showing German foresters equipped with a pistol. Until today! I browsed the internet searching for specific information, found nothing, but

http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/uniforms3/land-police.jpg

showing a third Reich illustration (probably from some uniform relating book) showing on the left two police men and on the right three foresters (Staatsförster = State foresters; I guess, in the US you would call 'em Federal Foresters or Rangers). Two of 'em are equipped with pistols, what makes this image special.

Regards

Martin

 

[huggiebear]

Martin , some day I will have to dig out my other Forestry holster which is green suede for a Walther Model 4. That one , I assume , is for the working man's holster as it will not leave scratch marks if walking about in the wooden areas as opposed to a finished patent leather holster for staff members as shown here. Didn't think that anyone would be interested.

 

[sauerfan]

quoteidn't think that anyone would be interested.

John,

far from it! I always was interested in the hunter's and forester's stuff, especially fort he green holsters.

Some 15 or so years ago I bought on the Berlin flea market (simply the best in Germany) a green foresters belt. The seller had a complete III. Reich forester's uniform rig for sale (including tunic, visor cap, trousers, boots) and he sold it in parts. Well, I was not interested in the whole rig, so I bought only the belt, what is green leather with an inner lining of green felt. No maker's markings and – surprisingly – no eagle on the buckle (there never has been an eagle attached to it). I was told, that the foresters occupied by private "land lords" did not had the eagle on the buckle.

Anyway: considering false colours on your photos, the holster plus belt would be a perfect match. My third photo is a composition of my belt and your holster. The colours do not match probably because of the light differences (I took mine in the evening sun; you made yours with a flash, I presume).



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Regards

Martin

 

[huggiebear]

Martin : I have a friend who has a complete collection of Forestry items which he has displayed at a gun show once that encompassed three 8 foot tables. Pretty impressive !!! Will email you his name and email address and perhaps the two of you can accomplish together what one can not do for himself. About 8 years ago, I was forced with threat of bodily harm if I did not sell him one of my two 6.35mm green holsters for his birthday, oh well !! Take care as others have been seen and will keep you in mind the next time one rolls around.

 

[sauerfan]

quote:Take care as others have been seen and will keep you in mind the next time one rolls around.

John,

thanks!!! But bear in mind: I am quiet spoiled... A green forester's holster must be for a Sauer!

Just kiddin'.... I am curious to get your email to get in contact with an other "antler nuts".

Horrido !

Martin

P.S. There is an other, strange connection between pistols and German hunters/foresters: at that time the police (equipped with Lugers, of course) was controlling in the forests the proper papers (hunting permits) of hunters.. shown photo comes from an undated (circa 1937) book "Wir Jäger" (us hunters)...


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[huggiebear]

Interesting, as I am not aware of any connection to lugers. If they are marked then they are either not discovered or markings not identified to such. Will keep an eye out for such an animal. It does make sense that they would have something marked as the 111 Reichs Forestry uniforms and accessories are quite impressive and given what every other services contributed , the Forestry couldn't be left out of the picture too much. After all, they did have a different color of their leather items than the rest of the pack. Seems to me, that I have seen a green rust colored Luger on ebay the other day though !?!

 

[sauerfan]

John,

There's also the possibility, that your green holster did not belong to a forester, but to a hunter. Just found in the 1940 Akah catalog the description for the Anuschat holster:


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Translation:

No. 2081 : Police model Holster, made of finest stiff and shiny leather in coffee brown, Havana brown (colour for officers), natural brown, black, or green (for the D.J.)</u>, belt loop, handcrafted saddler's workmanship"

No. 2082: ditto, with pouch for one reserve magazine"

The D. J. stands for "Reichsbund Deutsche Jägerschaft", what was the III. Reich hunter's association. The D.J. men wore uniforms and a visor cap. I found only one photo showing a D.J. member wearing a pistol holster. This comes from the "Schießvorschrift für den Reichsbund deutsche Jägerschaft" – the shooting regulations for the D.J.

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Regards

Martin

 

[huggiebear]

There is one problem with all of this and that is neither one of the holsters that I have posted are of the Anuschat type holsters and neither are they AKah marked. Perhaps another variation is yet to be discovered.

 

[SCHUPO]

John,

The anuschat system holsters that I have seen, or at least noticed, have been made for the larger caliber pistols. I had not really thought about that before you brought this particular holster up. Some of the early DDR holsters almost look like the anuschat system holster, except they lack the triangular fold-up piece of leather that secures the trigger guard.

Like this early DDR Makarov police holster.

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What type of holster system did the Germans call your green holster?

Here is a small 6.35 caliber Austrian Police holster that is made in the same style (not the anuschat system) as your 6.35 caliber green holster. I am not certain what pistol fits in my holster but it is marked to the Vienna Police.

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George

 

[huggiebear]

One will find that almost all [99%] of police holsters are not of anusacht type but are "drop-in" configuration. The exception to this is where we see the soft-shell police holster for the P.38 enter into inventory in the latter part of the war and I would suspect that this was caused by the leather supplies and the lack of skilled craftmen rather than a option of pattern of holsters. Drop-in holsters provide much more security from losing the pistol either through dropage or theft/struggle than any other variation and yet allow the user to quickly retrive the weapon. This is the practice even today ,even with our own military/police forces as well as others around the world. Your holster ,IMO, is of either for a staff officer of the police force or one of limited threat such as a railroad conductor/mail room attentend or such thing where the provision for a magazine pouch and the extra magazine it would carry to be of little value. Meaning the threat expected to the carrier would be that no extra magazine is warranted and its 6 [?] rounds in the pistol would be sufficient with what would be expected to be encountered in their activities. Can you tell me how your holster is marked that it is for the Austrian Police which I assume is pre-war era ?

 

[sauerfan]

quote:There is one problem with all of this and that is neither one of the holsters that I have posted are of the Anuschat type holsters and neither are they Akah marked.

John,

sorry, maybe I've created a misunderstanding. Yes, yours is not an Akah, not an Anuschat. What I find quiet interesting is the connection green = D. J. </u> mentioned in the Akah catalog. Not more, not less.

Regards

Martin

 

[huggiebear]

Yes, I understand your point. Would you think that any member of the the Reich's Forestry Services would have need or a requirement for a calibler less than 9mm ? Better yet , seeing that we have one photo posted which shows a Deutsche Reich Forestry member wearing a P.08 , would any caliber smaller than what would be expected to be found in a P.08 be in service with the Forestry Service ? I had thought that my holsters [ 7.65 & 6.35mm ] would have answered that question , but now maybe not. If AKah was offering this option in 1940 , would they not be offering this same option in, say 1924 but not of the Anuschat variation ?

 

[SCHUPO]

John,

Thanks for the description of the "drop in" style holster terminology. I did not know what to call this style. I will post my little holster, and answer your marking question, on a new thread so that it does not hijack your Reich Forestry topic.

George

 

[sauerfan]

quote:we have one photo posted which shows a Deutsche Reich Forestry member wearing a P.08

John,

seems, I've created another misunderstanding… sorry! No, the photo does not show a forestry member, but a Prussian Police officer controlling the hunting permits of some hunters.

Most foresters and hunters were equipped with 7.65 caliber pistols, some used the 6.35 pistols. Usage of heavy 9mm pistols (Lugers and C96) did not occur very often. Too heavy to carry the whole day in the woods. And remember: your green holster probably is an "official" holster to be carried together with the "parade" uniform. Probably not to be carried for daily use. In the woods a pistol normally was carried under the jacket…. The green ones are good to match the color of the "parade" belt…

As far as the 1940 Akah catalog is mentioned: remember, the D.J. as THE official hunter's association was created in 1934/35. Probably the reason, why there are no "official" green holsters mentioned in earlier catalogs.

Regards

Martin

 

[sauerfan]

Gentlemen,

just recently, I bought another green holster I like to present here. But first of all, again the only two remaining photos by John “huggiebear” of his first post– all others seem to have gone.