Jan C. Still Lugerforums banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
REICHS GENDARMERIE LUGERS (2011 update of 2003 thread)
BACKGROUND/HISTORY
The French Provinces Alsace (German: Elsass) and Lorraine (German: Lothringen)are located along the Rhine River between Germany and France. These were occupied by Germany after the Franco-German War of 1870-1871 and made into a German province. It was administered under a pseudo military occupation. The Reichs-Gendarmerie was raised from the Prussian Police or other police within Germany for law enforcement and security purposes within Elsass-Lothringen*. The Reichs-Gendarmerie became government officials of the Imperial Reich.

The Reichs-Gendarmerie was organized under military lines. It was formed into a Brigade, headed by a “Brigadier� his adjutants, 5 district officers, 21 Oberwacht Meisters and 410 mounted and foot Gendarmeries. The mounted Gendarmerie were called Berittenen

Bayonets, reichs revolvers, and Lugers were marked by the Elsass-Lothringen police with an R.G. followed by a weapons number. Wotka suggests that the mounted Gendarmerie (Berittenen) received the Lugers engraved with the R.G. xxb, the b signifying Berittenen. Assuming that the property numbers are consecutive, it is estimated that the mounted police (Berittenen) received approximately 136 Lugers ( R.G. 14b to R.G. 136b) and the unmounted police received approximately 272 Lugers (R.G. 27 to R.G. 272). Based on this analysis the total Luger procurement would be about 408. If each Reich Gendarmerie was P08 armed, the estimated total would compare very well with the documented number indicated by Wotka of 410 mounted and foot Gendarmerie..

At the start of World War I the Germans moved some of their forces out of Elsass-Lothringen to set a trap for the French who were anxious to free the occupied territory. The French forces retook part of Elsass-Lothringen. They battled bravely, but fierce German counter attacks soon forced the French out. (Undoubtedly the Reichs-Gendarmerie took some part in the August 1914 battle for Elsass-Lothringen.)

Sources: Reinhard Kornmayer, documents published in 1908 (3 April 1982 personal correspondence); Gortz (1997, page 130); and Joe Wotka,1914 dated documents (correspondance,1982). Still Volume I, 1982, page 101 to 104., Imperial Lugers 1991 page xxi-xxii, page 26, 57 and 58.


Jan C Still
Site Owner - Operator
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
REICHS-GENDARMERIE ( R.G.) MARKED LUGERS
Some 1908 and 1914 DWM Commercial Lugers have a R.G. prominently engraved above the left grip. These are reported in the 60385 to 61821 (1908) and 73882 to 74707 (1914) serial range (There is overlap between the two ranges). If the property numbers are consecutive it appears that approximately 136 Lugers were marked R.G. xxb and another 272 Lugers were marked R.G. xx.

RG LUGER SERIAL NUMBER DATA
* 1908 DWM Comm., 61626: R.G.4b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 4, Mounted)
* 1908 DWM Comm., 60530: R.G.14b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Mounted, Waffe 14) All commercial
style serial number placement. Shown page xxii and 57 of Imperial Lugers, 1991. Don Rousseau collection.
* 1908 DWM Comm., sn not reported (snr) R.G.15b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 15 Mounted) inferred from magazine
* 1908 DWM Comm., snr : R.G.21b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 21 Mounted) KAR98
* 1908 DWM Comm., 61305: R.G.27-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 27)
* 1908 DWM Comm., 61428: R.G.34b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 34, Mounted)
* 1908 DWM Comm., snr : R.G.41-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 41)
* 1908 DWM Comm., snr :R.G.42b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 42 Mounted) inferred from magazine
* 1908 DWM Comm., 60385: R.G.51-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 51)
* 1908 DWM Comm., 61121: R.G.51b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 51 Mounted)
* 1908 DWM Comm., 61297: R.G.59b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 59, Mounted)
* 1908 DWM Comm., snr : R.G.60-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 60)
* 1908 DWM Comm., 61718: R.G.81b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 81, Mounted)
* 1908 DWM Comm., 61821: R.G.100-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 100)
* 1908 DWM Comm., 61755: R.G.106-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 106) C/X C/X right receiver
* 1908 DWM Comm., 61649: R.G.109-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 109)

* 1914 DWM Comm., 74596: R.G.136b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Mounted, Waffe 136) Shown on page 103 and 104 of Still Volume I, 1981. In the collection of Jan Still for over 30 years.
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74186: R.G.160-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 160)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74202: R.G.165-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 165)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74221: R.G.168-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 168)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74164: R.G.176-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 176)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74208: R.G.206-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 206)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 73882: R.G.208-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 208)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74224: R.G.210-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 210)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74200: R.G.214-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 214)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74213: R.G.220-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 220)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74100: R.G.232-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 232)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74012: R.G.238-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 238) Shown page 93 of Luger the Multi National Pistol, Kenyon, 1991.
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74061: R.G.240-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 240)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74036: R.G.252-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 252)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74722: R.G.255-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 255)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74707: R.G.272-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 272)

Sources
The Pistols of Germany and its Allies in Two World Wars,Volume 1; 1982, Jan C Still pages 23-27, 101-104
Imperial Lugers, and Their Accessories, 1991, Jan C Still, pages 26, 57-58
Central Powers Pistols, 2007, Jan C Still, pages 64-65, 71-74
History Writ in Steel, German Police Markings 1900-1936, 2009, L. Donald Maus pages 293-298

Thread dated 08-30-2003 11:34 am

Figure 1. Top, 1908 Commercial Luger (without stock lug); bottom two 1914 Commercial Lugers (with stock Lug). All bear C/N commercial proofs. All three Lugers are marked to the Elsass-Lothringen Reichs-Gendarmerie. The R.G. is beautifully engraved over the left grip. The top two Lugers, serial numbers 61428 and 74596, are marked to the mounted (Berittenen) Gendarmerie: R.G 34b and R.G.136b. The bottom Luger, serial number 74200, is marked to the unmounted Gendarmerie: R.G. 214. The Reichs-Gendarmerie were government officials of the Imperial Reich.


Jan C Still
Site Owner - Operator
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Figure 3. Left slant view of Reichs-Gendarmerie marked 1914 Commercial Luger, serial number 74200. The R.G. 214 is prominently engraved, is of the highest quality, and the engraved cuts are blued. The quality and prominence of the R.G. 214 suggest pride in these Lugers by the Elsass-Lothringen Reichs-Gendarmerie.



RGLugers 087.jpg

Jan C Still
Site Owner - Operator
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Figure 4. 1908 DWM Commercial, serial number 60530, marked R.G.14b complete with matching commercial style 1910 dated holster, and tool, punch, cleaning rod and extra magazine. The R.G. Lugers were issued with R.G. marked commercial holsters with a provision for magazine, cleaning rod, tool, and punch. Don Rousseau collection



RGLugers 5770428.jpg

Jan C Still
Site Owner - Operator
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
For more photographs and information on the Reichs Gendarmerie Lugers see:
Under this section, 1900-1918: P.08-Army Lugers see: “1908 DWM, COMMERCIAL ARMY, R.I.R.72.M.G.” and TWO 1914 DWM COMMERCIAL R.G. LUGERS, SN 74200 AND 74596.
Jan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,719 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Patrice
Apologize for my forgetfullness. Added R.G.176, R.G.240, R.G.59b, R.G.81b, and R.G. 168. above.
Thanks for the information and for posting
Jan
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Table above reposted separating the unmounted from the mounted.
RG LUGER SERIAL NUMBER DATA
MOUNTED
* 1908 DWM Comm., 61626; R.G.4b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 4, Mounted) Rt. Rec. C/B C/B,
* 1908 DWM Comm., 60530: R.G.14b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 14) Mounted, All commercial style serial number placement. Rt. Rec. C/B C/B, 8,83 gauge; Shown page xxii and 57 of Imperial Lugers, 1991. Don Rousseau collection.
* 1908 DWM Comm., sn not reported (snr) R.G.15b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 15 Mounted) inferred from magazine
* 1908 DWM Comm., snr : R.G.21b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 21 Mounted) KAR98
* 1908 DWM Comm., 61428: R.G.34b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 34, Mounted) Rt. Rec. C/B C/B, 8,82 gauge Note: round topped three.
* 1908 DWM Comm., snr :R.G.42b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 42 Mounted) inferred from magazine
* 1908 DWM Comm., 61121: R.G.51b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 51 Mounted)
* 1908 DWM Comm., 61297: R.G.59b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 59, Mounted)
* 1908 DWM Comm., 61718: R.G.81b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 81, Mounted)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74596: R.G.136b-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Mounted, Waffe 136) no gauge; Note: flat topped three. Shown on page 103 and 104 of Still Volume I, 1982. In the collection of Jan Still for over 30 years.

NOT MOUNTED
* 1908 DWM Comm., 61305: R.G.27-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 27)
* 1908 DWM Comm., snr : R.G.41-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 41)
* 1908 DWM Comm., 60385: R.G.51-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 51)
* 1908 DWM Comm., snr : R.G.60-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 60)
* 1908 DWM Comm., 61821: R.G.100-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 100)
* 1908 DWM Comm., 61755: R.G.106-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 106) C/X C/X right receiver
* 1908 DWM Comm., 61649: R.G.109-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 109)

* 1914 DWM Comm., 74186: R.G.160-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 160)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74202: R.G.165-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 165)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74221: R.G.168-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 168)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74164: R.G.176-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 176)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74208: R.G.206-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 206)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 73882: R.G.208-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 208)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74224: R.G.210-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 210)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74200: R.G.214-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 214)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74213: R.G.220-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 220)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74100: R.G.232-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 232)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74012: R.G.238-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 238) Note: flat topped three. Shown page 93 of Luger the Multi National Pistol, Kenyon, 1991.
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74061: R.G.240-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 240)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74036: R.G.252-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 252)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74722: R.G.255-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 255)
* 1914 DWM Comm., 74707: R.G.272-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 272)

SUMMARY to date May 4, 2011
R.G.xxb: 10 reported; All but one 1908 Comm.; Range R.G 4b-R.G 136b.
R.G.xx: 22 reported; seven 1908 comm. fifteen 1914 Comm.; Range R.G.27-R.G.272
Approximate number of R.G. marked Lugers assuming a separate R.G. xx and R.G. xxb range. 136+272=408
 

·
Copper Bullet Member
Joined
·
3,507 Posts
Jan, it is perhaps worth noting that these pistols apparently were issued in two phases. The first phase probably consisted of the 1908 models along with holsters stamped R.G.14 for the year of issue (1914). The second phase apparently occurred in 1916 with the issue of model 1914 commercial Lugers in holsters marked R.G.16.

Also, the following is listed in HWIS:
1914 DWM Comm.,74100: R.G.232
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Kri and Don
R.G. 32 added
Thanks for posting
Jan
Don
Your two groups are apparent.
Jan

* 1914 DWM Comm., 74100: R.G.232-(Reichs Gendarmerie Elass-Lorthingen, Waffe 232)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Table updated above and summary added.
Thanks to all those that contributed
Any information on the right receiver acceptance stamps ie C/B C/B or C/X C/X would be most helpful!!
Thanks
Jan
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top