Jan C. Still Lugerforums banner
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
G

·
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm new to this forum but after picking another Polish Vis 35 up, I started goingthrough my avialable references and notes and quickly realized, there isn't much in print on this pistol. There was a book published back in 1981 by Berger thats pretty good but aside from ebay sales, I haven't seen it for sale anywhere. Ther are refences in other texts, but teh info differs. What I'm trying to do is assembel a data base of known Polish/German occupation Radom Vis 35's.

If you have one or moe and don't mind sharing the info, I'd liek to compile a data base of serial numbers and include data on slide legends, with or with-out stock slot, grip type description, with/with-out take down lever, and finally any acceptance markings. Also would liek data on the magazine (s?) associated with these pistols. Appreciate any and all assistance (Note my email is [email protected] - I have a really agressive firewall/SPAM blocker, but don't worry I can get your messages past and into my in-box.)
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ed, thats sort of what I have in mind. Over the years I've read bits and pieces here and there biut an awful lot of mis-information has been presented as fact and I'd like to think with work, I can present a factual & readable book or article. I'm a long time firearm/militaria colector/;researcher & enthusiast and have written a few articles in the past. With a bit of research and help form other, I hope to continue sharing information and the Radom/Vis project is one of those ideas/efforts. Thanks for the encouragement.
John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
Hello John,

For one of the most informative discussions on the VIS 35 I have ever seen, you need to visit this discussion on the gunboards.com militaria board. Various knowledgeable collectors, including some from Poland have provided images and information about everything from the late war types to the first prototype pistols. Some of these guys from Poland even provided me with information about my Radom made Nagant revolver - and nothing is available about them. ENJOY!

http://www.gunboards.com/militaria/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1533

Best regards,
Greg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,127 Posts
Hi John,

The materials in Berger's book and Jan's "Axis Pistols" pretty much sum up the information on the ViS35 pistol. I have collected the "Radom" pistol for nearly 35 years and based on the hundred or so pistols in my collection, plus a large number of serials folks have shared with me over the years, I have discovered no real surprises.

That said, the only thing that may change is the narrowing down where certain variations and subvariations changes occur in the serial ranges. As with other German and occupation produced small arms, there are not definite cutoff points where the changes occur. I have observed that there is considerable overlap, so I doubt we will ever be able to say this or that happen at an exact serial point.

The information that I would find most interesting, would be the interaction between the Steyr and Radomiu facilities.

Good luck with the book, we can always use more. Drop me an email sometime and we will discuss it at length.

VIS
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
msv,
* A glimmer of recorded data. Thank you! What is the name, author, and date of this publication so we know the source?
* I noticed about a 1730 pistol gap, in the above, between the 1937 high number and the 1938 low number. Are these high/low S/N's of pistols reported to the author by the date of the book's publication?
* Generally, other authors have attempted to reconcile these "gaps" by various means. Some have later data from other reliable sources, some choose to split the gap difference & allocate half of the difference to each year flanking the gap, others round the results of this latter technique. If I'm interpreting this correctly, Jan Still, Axis Pistols, Pg.67, 3rd Printing (w/ updates as of 1989) suggests the "Polish Eagle Captured Variation" came from the ranges for the VIS Eagle Polish production dated examples as (approximately): "1936=01-5500, 1937=5500-8800, 1938=8800-29000, 1939=29000-49400 and allows for some of the last 2000 being mismatched. My belief is this "last 2000 statement" may be based on F.A.Hoffmeyer data?
* In the late '90's, I believe Randy Bessler listed a waffen proofed VIS Eagle in the mid 50k's S/N placement. This led me to consider "the last 2000" as an addition to the 49,400 high number and would approximately track to the 51k end of 1939 range shown above. Are there verified legit Eagles in the 49.4k-51.1k S/N range reported, matched or mismatched, and/or Waffen accepted, to your knowledge? If so, do you believe these "last 2000" were assembled under German control after Radom plant capture in 9/39 to the approx. restart of serial production in 9/40??
* I acknowledged a lot of turmoil was going on in this year's period. From your experiences, is the collector's consensus these were Freedom fighter assemblies or German directed assemblies from Radom plant inventory or both??
* Appreciate all thoughts relating to this period's "production". TIA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Autor is Jerzy Zarawski ,the article is from monthly paper "Odkrywca"
2002.
I think that the numbers are based on existing pistols ,there is the gap between 1937 -1938 because the autor had no information maybe
some of the collectors will fill it?
The lowest number 1938 Vis I did see was about 20 000 ....
In my opinion genue pre war polish Radom has D2 army proof and lanyard loop.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
Questions:
How do the letter prefixes, ie. "C" or "D" affect the serial number ranges in the Polish publication?
Are there supposed to be letter prefixes attached to the serial number ranges listed in the Polish publication ?

Here is a link to a Radom Ser.# D3468.

Oops, had a prob w/link. Here it is:

http://www.panchogun.com/FVWebPhotos/FV-Radom-Police-Vopo-VIS35-5x100px.jpg

Is this "D" number (D3468) supposed to be contained within the 1939 Ser. # range in the Polish Publication?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
Questions:
How do the letter prefixes, ie. "C" or "D" affect the serial number ranges in the Polish publication?
Are there supposed to be letter prefixes attached to the serial number ranges listed in the Polish publication ?

Here is a link to a Radom Ser.# D3468.

Oops, had a prob w/link. Here it is:

http://www.panchogun.com/FVWebPhotos/FV-Radom-Police-Vopo-VIS35-5x100px.jpg

Is this "D" number (D3468) supposed to be contained within the 1939 Ser. # range in the Polish Publication?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
The lowest number 1938 Radom I did see is 13283 an attic find in Poland.
The author of the polish article says that the numbers are based on acctual pistols from Poland and rest of the world and he asks
readers to complete them if they can.

Download Attachment: DSC05243.JPG
63.25 KB find in Poland


Download Attachment: DSC05232.JPG
65.05 KB

Download Attachment: DSC05236.JPG
63.27 KB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
The lowest number 1938 Radom I did see is 13283 an attic find in Poland.
The author of the polish article says that the numbers are based on acctual pistols from Poland and rest of the world and he asks
readers to complete them if they can.

Download Attachment: DSC05243.JPG
63.25 KB find in Poland


Download Attachment: DSC05232.JPG
65.05 KB

Download Attachment: DSC05236.JPG
63.27 KB
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Here is my Radom, Sn.L5264, WaA71, P.35(p) lightly stamped on slide, military blue, 3 lever, black plastic grips, with original unmarked magazine.

Adam
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Here is my Radom, Sn.L5264, WaA71, P.35(p) lightly stamped on slide, military blue, 3 lever, black plastic grips, with original unmarked magazine.

Adam
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
833 Posts
Here are four (4) VIS M1935 Radoms out of my Axis pistol collection

From the top left counter clockwise:

Serial # C6545 with take down lever and slotted
E/WaA77 acceptance stamped
F.B. Radom Vis Mod.35 Pat. Nr. 15567 "P.35(p.)"
Brown Plastic/Fiber grips
Unmarked magazine

Serial # 9975 with take down lever and slotted
E/WaA77 acceptance stamped
F.B. Radom Vis Mod.35 Pat. Nr. 15567 "P.35(p.)"
Black Plastic Grips
NO lanyard loop
Unmarked magazine

Serial # B7263 without take down lever and unslotted
E/77 acceptance stamped
Phosphate Finish
F.B. Radom Vis Mod.35 Pat. Nr. 15567
Grooved brown wood grips
Two (2)Magazines Marked E/189 on bottom of magazine floor plate

Serial # H2173 with take down lever and unslotted
E/WaA77 acceptance stamped
F.B. Radom Vis Mod.35 Pat. Nr. 15567 "P.35(p.)"
Black Plastic Grips
Unmarked magazine

Download Attachment: Radoms Serial number identified.jpg
81.36KB

Download Attachment: Radoms Left side.jpg
74.22KB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
833 Posts
Here are four (4) VIS M1935 Radoms out of my Axis pistol collection

From the top left counter clockwise:

Serial # C6545 with take down lever and slotted
E/WaA77 acceptance stamped
F.B. Radom Vis Mod.35 Pat. Nr. 15567 "P.35(p.)"
Brown Plastic/Fiber grips
Unmarked magazine

Serial # 9975 with take down lever and slotted
E/WaA77 acceptance stamped
F.B. Radom Vis Mod.35 Pat. Nr. 15567 "P.35(p.)"
Black Plastic Grips
NO lanyard loop
Unmarked magazine

Serial # B7263 without take down lever and unslotted
E/77 acceptance stamped
Phosphate Finish
F.B. Radom Vis Mod.35 Pat. Nr. 15567
Grooved brown wood grips
Two (2)Magazines Marked E/189 on bottom of magazine floor plate

Serial # H2173 with take down lever and unslotted
E/WaA77 acceptance stamped
F.B. Radom Vis Mod.35 Pat. Nr. 15567 "P.35(p.)"
Black Plastic Grips
Unmarked magazine

Download Attachment: Radoms Serial number identified.jpg
81.36KB

Download Attachment: Radoms Left side.jpg
74.22KB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
msv,
* Thank you for the source reference info.
* I agree with your last post with the exception of the lowest 1938 S/N. Apparently Jan Still has had a 1938 example reported around S/N 8800. Maybe a "rounding approximation" between the 1937 high of S/N 7786 & the 1938 low # 9417 of the Polish article above. (Ooops..on further reflection I now get it....this is the lowest you have personally seen.)
* The question still unanswered is how many Eagle marked slide examples were produced...both Pre-War and German occupation. Does approximately 51,078 stand...implying about 2000 German occupation Eagle marked assemblies in your opinion??

Lloyd,
* NICE, nice, nice, & NICE!!
* Are those pressed wood or brown plastic grips on the 1/C-3 Lever??
* Please (oh please) mark me down as a greatful (& probably financially lighter) heir to that 4 digit-No Prefix!!

Pancho,
I shouldn't be talking for the "Polish publication" as I have not got a copy of it; but, I believe the letter prefix guns (almost universally) are not Pre-war, wz.35, VIS, Polish Eagle slide marked guns. Your "1/D3468" example was likely made very early in 1942.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
msv,
* Thank you for the source reference info.
* I agree with your last post with the exception of the lowest 1938 S/N. Apparently Jan Still has had a 1938 example reported around S/N 8800. Maybe a "rounding approximation" between the 1937 high of S/N 7786 & the 1938 low # 9417 of the Polish article above. (Ooops..on further reflection I now get it....this is the lowest you have personally seen.)
* The question still unanswered is how many Eagle marked slide examples were produced...both Pre-War and German occupation. Does approximately 51,078 stand...implying about 2000 German occupation Eagle marked assemblies in your opinion??

Lloyd,
* NICE, nice, nice, & NICE!!
* Are those pressed wood or brown plastic grips on the 1/C-3 Lever??
* Please (oh please) mark me down as a greatful (& probably financially lighter) heir to that 4 digit-No Prefix!!

Pancho,
I shouldn't be talking for the "Polish publication" as I have not got a copy of it; but, I believe the letter prefix guns (almost universally) are not Pre-war, wz.35, VIS, Polish Eagle slide marked guns. Your "1/D3468" example was likely made very early in 1942.
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top