* S/42 CODE-K DATE, sn1056

3723 Views 26 Replies 6 Participants Last post by silvereagle29, May 3, 2005

Jan C Still

Discussion Starter · Sep 20, 2003

8

FIRST SUBVARIATION, S/42 CODE-K DATE.
During 1934 Mauser started production of Lugers for the German military. A “K” over the chamber was used as a date code for 1934. An S (scriptic or gothic) inspection mark was stamped on almost all parts of the first 9100 Lugers produced*. After serial number 9100 the remaining K date Lugers were produced without the “S” parts stamps (there are minor exceptions*).

*The stamping of the S inspection stamps was not always consistent. The term “almost all” is best used to describe the distribution of gothic and scriptic S stamps to define Subvariations of K date Lugers.

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Figure 1. The first 1700 K date Lugers produced bore the scriptic “S” inspection stamp on almost all parts. These have been termed First Subvariation “K” date. Shown is first Subvariation K date, serial number1056.

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Figure 2. First Subvariation K date, serial number 1056. Top. Note the scriptic “S” stamp on all parts.

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Figure 3. First Subvariation K date, serial number 1056. Right side.

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Figure 4. First Subvariation K date, serial number 1056. Right receiver and barrel, showing the early test proof and 0-37 acceptance stamps. All the First Subvariation “K” date Lugers bear the double 0-37 acceptance stamps.

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Figure 5. First Subvariation K date, serial number 1056. Serial number on the frame and barrel. Note the halo on the barrel serial number digits and 8.83 barrel gauge digits.

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Figure 6. First Subvariation K date, serial number 1056. Showing its 1934 dated holster.

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Figure 7. Holster manufacture CARL HEINICH / DRESDEN / 1934 and droop eagle WaA105 acceptance stamp.

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Figure 8. Details of 1934 dated holster. It bears a pouch for a cleaning rod and an extra flap for a cleaning patch. These features are found on earlier dated Weimar Era Army holsters and disappear by 1935. The tool bears the O-37 inspection stamp.

Jan C Still
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Nietzsche

· #2 · Sep 20, 2003

Jan:

That is one real nice piece. And that 1934 holster with the P.08 makes that rig one that any German firearm’s collector should be real envious of. One thing on qualification: I’ve always heard those real early acceptance marks described as, “pre-waffenamt 37” stamps, not the description you’ve given them. They actually look more like “Ö 37” anyway. Something interesting of parallel note: the K date Kar.98k rifles also have the pre-amt 37 stamp only on the early ones, or first sub variation. But the rifles have three:

earlyKandGcodeDateproofs.jpg

This oddball acceptance mark continued to be used in the early G date rifles. Was this the case with the G date Lugers? I had one real old grizzled collector tell me some interesting speculation about the pre-amt 37 stamp. He claimed that die set was the property of a real “old timer” inspector at the Oberndorf plant, and that he “stuck his nose” into the QC of the early K and G dates at the beginning of those productions, until he retired in 1935.

“Mitgegangen, mitgefangen, mitgehangen.”
-Old German saying.

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Jan C Still

Discussion Starter · #3 · Sep 20, 2003

Curt
The 0-37 acceptance stamp is used to about K date 3300. The use of the 0-37 stamp ends someplace in the later 3000 serial range to be replaced by the B-90 and S-91. The 0-37 does not show up again and is not used on G dates. I find that knowledge of the same acceptance stamps being used on the rifles can sometimes help understand their use on Lugers.
Thanks for the insight.
Jan

Jan C Still
Site Owner - Operator

Nietzsche

· #4 · Sep 20, 2003

Jan, I like the Kar rifles, but they are way less glamorous, desirable as collectables, and shootable than a Luger. I also think the basic Luger is the single most recognizable firearm in the world. Especially with non-collectors. You can show the silhouette of a P.08 to about anyone – even a person who hates firearms or isn’t interested in them – and he or she will probably be able to tell you, “that’s a Luger.” A close second is the Thompson submachine gun. Although they might say Tommy gun (shortened name), gangster gun (spot on), or Chicago Typewriter. Haven’t seen it in forever, but I think even Captain Kirk had a Luger in the Star Trek episode Patterns of Force. William Shatner made the most convincing Nazi I’ve ever seen for an actor. And I hear he acts like one on the set too…

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“Mitgegangen, mitgefangen, mitgehangen.”
-Old German saying.

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Frank

· #5 · Sep 20, 2003

Jan, I have a K-Date, S/N 3412 that has acceptance stamps of O-37 and S-91, so this must be in the transition range between the O-37 & O-37 and the B-90 & S-91 pistols.

Also I agree that G-Dates were not O-37 marked. I have a very early G-Date and it's stamped just like the late K-Dates with the B-90 & S-91 marks

Jan C Still

Discussion Starter · #6 · Sep 20, 2003

Frank
As I recall, there is a transition in the mid-3000 serial range of a few hundred K dates that have the S-91 (or B-90?) 0-37 acceptance stamp. Yours fits in that range. Correction 09/26/03

Can you take or obtain photographs of your K date. It should be a subvariation 2 with mixed scriptic and gothic stamps. However, I have found that the distribution of the S (scriptic and gothic) is not consistent. It would be of interest to see yours.

I would like to see photographs of all the subvariations of K date Luger posted here.
Jan

Jan C Still
Site Owner - Operator

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· #7 · Sep 26, 2003

Jan,
As a Mauser luger lover, I don't think they get any nicer than this pistol. If it was mine I would sleep with it every night. Does it have two matching magazines? How many K-Date luger rigs do you think are in existence with two matching magazines?
If it was made before 1934 it's not a Mauser!

Thanks,

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Jan C Still

Discussion Starter · #8 · Sep 26, 2003

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This Luger doesnt have two matching mags. There are a few K dates with two matching mags. When I started collecting you almost never saw two matching mags. There seem to be more now.
Jan

Jan C Still
Site Owner - Operator

Nietzsche

· #9 · Oct 2, 2003

quote:Originally posted by Jan C Still

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There are a few K dates with two matching mags. When I started collecting you almost never saw two matching mags. There seem to be more now.

That is Waffenfabrik USA at work Jan. (That tongue-in-check name I have to give credit to Bill Reed, aka Mauser Bill.) There never used to be so many matching pieces for anything in this hobby. Even when I started. I have another friend who claims that partly because of the influx of the Russian captures, everything is eventually going to be all matching. I also chortle insanely whenever I see the ridiculous prices that Luger parts are going for on eBay. And just watch the price jump through the roof when a period correct unnumbered magazine goes on sale. It’s pretty obvious what is going on. Some time ago, I sold an unnumbered legitimate armorer’s replacement item for a great price, and I was scratching my head trying to figure out why it went so high. Then I looked at what some of the bidders had already purchased. Looks like those bastards were trying to put together fake sniper rifles! Curses, I’d unknowingly become a supplier to WFUSA. I mention this because I’ve noticed that some of the gentlemen who post on the two main Luger boards are in business selling P.08 pistols, accessories and spare parts. So whether they realize it or not, they’ve probably also sold needed hardware to the very fakers they hate so much.

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G

· #10 · Feb 14, 2005

Jan,

I have a K date with the B190 markings on the barrel and frame.It is also covered with the Gothic S,however it is S/N 2295. So the B190 was in use before the 3300 range. Thanks for such an interesting and informative site. Tim I.

Jan C Still

Discussion Starter · #11 · Feb 14, 2005

Tim
Detailed photographs of your serial number 2295 B:90 K date would be greatly appreciated.
Jan

G

· #12 · Feb 14, 2005

Hi Jan,

I will sit down with the digital camera and pistol and try to get some good shots tomorrow. For some reason my wife wants me to take her out tonight. lol. Tim I.

G

· #13 · Apr 23, 2005

Is the barrel numbered to the frame? B-90 is really early. On the other hand the frame might have been assembled later in the production process. As Jan indicates, pictures would be nice.
thanks

G

· #14 · Apr 23, 2005

K-Date Lugers. Does anyone own number 3348, 3360 3361 3446, 3447, 3470, 3530 or anything in this area 3300 through 3600. If so what are the acceptance marks??
Thanks,

G

· #15 · Apr 30, 2005

4

Hi SilverEagle, yes the barrel is numbered to #2295. I sent some pictures to Jan hopefully he got them and can post them. Tim

quote:This is my K date with
the Gothic S. B:90, Serial number 2295. The gun is all matching of course but unfortunately the magazine is marked FXO and the holster used in the picture is from a BYF 42 I had years ago and sold. But it looks nice with the pistol. The mag loading tool is has a small
eagle with 655. The holster is dated 1941 TTC with a Waffenampt WaA182. Like I said it does not really go with the pistol but looks nice in the picture. I got this Luger some years back in a trade with an older gent claiming to be the vet who brought it back, he
just wanted something more reliable for home defense.
To tell you the truth at the time I did not know the K date was especially sought and my knowledge of Lugers was limited. So I am quite pleased with it.

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Jan C Still

Discussion Starter · #16 · Apr 30, 2005

Tim
I cannot transmit your photographs in the format that they are in. They open in my E mail but not in my photo file.
Jan

Jan C Still

Discussion Starter · #17 · Apr 30, 2005

Tim
From what I can see in your photographs, your K date Luger lacks a test proof on the right receiver and barrel.
Jan

G

· #18 · May 1, 2005

gopguy
I'm lost on this one, I will wait for Jans reply before any comments come from me.
Good luck.

drbuster

· #19 · May 1, 2005

It is my humble opinion that more rigs are appearing now with two matching magazines because these items were added years ago to collections and their proud owners are ending their life cycles. I've seen more and more large old collections come to market. But on the other hand, with modern technology, one can (and I'm sure does) fabricate these things. As a collector of today, I'm happy to see such pieces come available, but one must be very careful. There is no better example of this boosting and fabrication than many of the pieces on the current Rock Island Auction. At least some attempt is made to properly identify these items. Also, to swing to a slightly different subject: the notch or groove that is supposed to be located at the end of the frame on K dates. I see this notch on the right side of Jan's K, but not on the left side. What is the current feeling about these K date notches?

Edward Tinker

· #20 · May 1, 2005

Pictures added for Tim,

Ed

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