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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
One of my S Codes has "S" in center of toggle as shown on p.69 of Still Vol V. Other has "S" at rear of toggle. Is one location of "S" more common than the other? Was this location changed at a seial range? Or, was it randomly placed in either location? Henry
 

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Henry:

I just learned about this forum (courtesy of the NRA) and will comment on your S-code question. Better late than never, hopefully.

I have two S-codes-- the lower number, '1103 a', has the "S" at the rear of the toggle. This gun is completely correct, down to the magazine-- but the magazine is numbered '1103' and '+' only. However, the E-6 inspection stamps (2)are correct, and the chance of having a magazine of the same number but from an earlier gun seem to me to be remote. So my first question is-- was the suffix commonly used in numbering S-toggle magazines? Or, like elsewhere, was it omitted?

The second gun is very interesting. It has an S-toggle, but with the "S" centered in the toggle. The gun's number is '1864 a'; I realise that this is considered to be above the range of S-toggle Simsons. However, the E-6 stamps are where they should be on all parts, except for the barrel. The barrel is unmarked except for what looks like an E/N commercial proof on the forward base of the front sight. It is 9 mm. There is no S/N.

The left side of the receiver, over the serial number, very definitely is stamped with E/N, which I believe was the commercial nitro proof-- but in Nazi days. Additionally, the font used to number this gun is slightly smaller than the font used on '1103 a'. It matches the height of numbers on contemporary Mauser guns. The four Simson Army acceptance stamps are in place on the right of the receiver, though.
And the magazine is correct Simson, but with a S/N about 200 numbers earlier than the gun (and no suffix letter).

So, who made it? Simson made the parts, or at least most of them; could Mauser have gotten Simson's old work-in process and made some commercial guns to use up the inventory? Or was this, perhaps, made during the 'Wilhelm Gustloff-Stiftung' era, to use up parts?

Anyone have any ideas?

Graham
 

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except for such a smaller number of simson's out there, the same thing that Jan did for the 1940's of markings, serial etc, might prove fascinating. I don't have one here to start, but anyone else with a simson that could add, I would be glad to start charting it out for y'all?

Henry, we'd need to know your serial number / suffix

Do proofs too?

Ed
 

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Ed-
I'd be happy to contribute to a study of Simsons, because I believe them to be the least-well-documented Lugers around. What info. would you want from me, beyond what I sent-- location and style of all acceptance/inspection/proof stamps on the various parts? I have, in addition to the two S-codes, a 1926 dated and a blank chamber, and a Police rework rig.
Graham
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Guys: Thanks for info. I don't know answers. My first S Code Simson is serial no.251a. "S" is at rear of toggle. Has sear safety and matching "+" marked mag. The other has "S" in center of toggle and is serial no. 1299a --w/o sear safety. Mag is Simson marked, but not matchig. I wonder if placement of "S" was random or event driven at a certain serial no. range. Proofs very some what. I need to refer to Jan's books and get pictures of proofs to you.Henry
 

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Graham, I assume that serial number, toggle marking, year if stamped.... I haven't figured it out, but what you have given so far is great.

Ed
 

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Graham, Your S code 1864a is in the proper range for an S code.It`s the second highest number I know of. The highest is 1888a. Simson`s are numbered in one range starting with the 1925s, then blank chambers, then S codes,with many overlaps up to about #1700 and after 10,000. All known (to me)examples between 1700 and 10,000 (9999?)are blank chambered.Above 10,000 I have 34 S codes and 14 undated Simson`s recorded.Below 1700 I have 13 S codes recorded. I assume they were rejected for some reason in 1925 and put together and sent out in 1934? Any theories or info welcome. What is the number of your 26 date? Doug
 

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Doug, thanks for the response. It would be interesting to know if 1888a had the same Mauser-style numbers and commercial proof as does 1864a! Your analysis of Simson's numbering (i.e., continuous from 1925 to 1934 or whenever they actually stopped) matches my understanding, and limited experience. [Although where Simsons are concerned, no one seems to have much experience!]
My 1926-dated is number 657, which puts it right in the middle of Jan Still's group of three numbers. It is original in every respect; has about 98% of the bluing but the straw color has faded some. "E/6" is stamped on all normal parts, including the grips and grip screws. The grips both have a small eagle stamped inside them; not quite like any other I have seen. The only unmatched part is the magazine-- it is serial #5495, has a tinned body and aluminum base; only one E/6 stamp on the base; none on the body. Altogether, it is a pretty gun.
Sounds like you have done some research on the elusive Simsons--are you planning on publishing the results? Graham
 

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Graham,Way back in the 70s I picked up a 25 date Simson (#410)for 135 bucks.I wanted to research it but I too discovered that nobody seemed to know much about Simsons. I started writing down the numbers of the guns I saw or heard of, but didn`t write down anything else,(mainly because I`m a broomhandle Mauser collector)I corresponded with Randall Gibson and Harland Domke, who were both kind enough to send me the numbers they had recorded.I combined the 3 and sent it to Jan Still for his book.I would be happy to send you a copy of the list,but that is all the info I have on Simson`s. As you said, no one seems to have much experience in that area! I`m sure with this forum we`ll be able to ad alot of new numbers, but Jan will have to write the book! Where do you want me to send the list? Doug
 

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Doug, if the Simson list can be scanned, you can send it to: '[email protected]' (catchy address, eh?); if it has to be mailed, drop me an e-mail and I'll provide my mail address by return. So your specialty is broomhandles? Well, I have one, and a question as to its origin. Mine is a red-9, serial no. 109299; all matching including stock, except the grips. They match each other, and are both numbered 109251. The gun is a full rig, including spare spring; near-mint. But there are no military acceptance or proof marks on it-- only a Crown/U stamp on the rear of the breechblock, and left side of the barrel/receiver. The barrel breech is stamped, "Waffenfabrik Mauser Oberndorf a/N" in three lines. My questions, two actually-- is it common for the grips to not match the gun? I understood this came from removing them in batches to apply the "Red-9" to them, keeping them matched to each other but not necessarily returning them to the gun they came from. And second, were all military purchases acceptance-stamped, or were some just left with a commercial proof? If not military, then what is this pistol's origin? Looking forward to hearing from you, and have a great Fourth! Graham
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Simson Collectors. During the years, I have recorded a long list of Simson - S - serial numbers, a few of these pistols have a serial number and no letter suffix. I suspect these Lugers were reported/recorded without the normal - a - suffix letter. I wonder, do you Simson enthusiasts have any information on these - S - codes. Numbers 74, 87, 490, 630, 632, 639, 1229, 1423, 1462, 1654, 1504, 1611 and 1654. During the years that I recorded these numbers, I failed Luger data 101. I did not record property numbers, sear safety, mag safety, acceptance marks, proof marks and type of grips. This information is probably essential in order to track the Simson years. Fortunately, I didn't make the same mistake on Mauser Luger and magazine information. Lets see how many Simson serial numbers we can turn up with the associated data. Magazine descriptions also provide a serial number for a Simson Luger. if you have an "orphan" Simson magazine, the information is helpful in establishing a serial number and suffix range.
 
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