[nieuport]

Compiling this data (for any/all models of S&S) to hopefully one day be able to connect numbered pistols, mags, holsters to a specific armorer, organizational unit, location, etc by similarity of the numbered-mag's "numbering pattern" and other associated "clues" reflected on number-matched holsters and pistols. By the way, I already have about 60 JP Sauer & Sohn serial-numbered-mags which reflect 33 different "numbering patterns" (not counting any of the bazillion or more un-numbered S&S mags) - so not seeing there was any standard serial numbering regulation imposed upon all police or other authorities' armorers. Please note that inventory or unit numbered mags are also to be included in this survey.

If anyone with a number-marked S&S mag would please send me mag pictures (and especially also matched-pistol and matched-holster markings) I will add it to my study's database AND for "orphan mags" I will share a listing to help contributors perhaps find their missing numbered-mag (like Tom Whiteman has done for Walther orphan mags). Please either post here or PM me for confidentiality

Here is an example: say, a serial numbered S&S 38H mag reflects the "numbering pattern" of: the last 4 digits of its serial-number-matched mag are stamped at the top of the mag's spine with the "reading order" of those digits (ie, from left to right) pointing towards the 6 o'clock direction (ie, base) of the mag. Here is a picture:



Continuing with this example, say, the serial-number-matched holster of this "rig" is acceptance-stamped with the familiar police "eagle-over-B" marking and reflects inside the name, rank and address of the German police officer to whom it was issued. What I am saying is MAYBE other serial-number-matched S&S mags would have been consistently so marked by this same armorer, or other armorers of the same location or organizational unit, which might have followed some regulation to mark all mags with this same "numbering pattern"

 

[luger_collector]

Sauer & Sohn 38H with Eagle/C :

Karl

 

[retropox]

You posses ~60 numbered mags, or you have 60 noted on your list?

 

[nieuport]

Nice one Karl ! Wish it could talk. Do you have a matching numbered holster as well? Your's is a new numbering pattern for me so far, so now there are 34 different patterns (if another like your's comes along I will PM you)

 

[luger_collector]

Doug,
no holster came along with this 38H.

Karl

 

[nieuport]

Always on the lookout for new data - pictures to contribute anyone? For example, here are a few numbered S&S magazines consistently marked during an estimated 2 year production period perhaps by a single armorer or multiple armorer-locations following a standard marking pattern (mandate?). These magazines are serial number matched to Modell 38h pistols marked eagle-over-C or eagle-over-F thus armorer(s) would likely have belonged to a police organization; unfortunately no serial-number-matching holster with any of these reflecting possible clues of location where "rig" may have been issued or used:

 

[nieuport]

retropox, sorry for non-response until now. I possess 60+ pictures of numbered S&S magazines (a few of which exist in metallic form in my collection ;-)

Post or PM your's please, ladies and gentlemen

 

[nieuport]

based on [scant] data available so far, left side numbered S&S mags fall into four different numbering-patterns:

Please post of PM pictures of your JP Sauer & Sohn magazines, any model (eg, M13, M26, M30, B-M, 38/h)

 

[nieuport]

Two magazines reflecting same numbering pattern:

Let's see a picture of your's !

 

[Rycheme]

Alas mine has no holster or mag number, just the S&S, CAL7.65 on the bottom.
The slide is marked as usual on left and right with the last three matching digits in the front end.
Ser# 272306 with a very light eagle over N below the number on the right side.
There is an eagle over N on the barrel front right side, a J on the barrel kinda bottom back left, and a J on right lower barrel block? or trunnion, not sure what its called on these.
Left side has 2 stick wing eagles over 37 stamps in front top of the trigger guard.
There don't appear to be any other marking visible on the frame.
Don't think this helps much with the mags but might help establish with the other areas.
photos if needed will have to wait till the weekend when i can get my wife's help.
Ryche

 

[kh195]

Here’s one I can add:
38h eagle/c with one matching mag, no holster. It also has the modified magazine release if that is of importance as well.

 

[nieuport]

Rycheme at post #10 above, as you may know your "double E/37" military Modell 38h is rare and very desirable. I for one would like to see pictures of your pistol and I recommend you post them to a new dedicated thread of its own (there WILL be others very interested to see it too). Thanks for posting news of your good fortune here !

 

[nieuport]

kh195 at post #11, thank you for adding your E/C and numbered mag to this survey. I can tell you that this magazine marking pattern is unique as I have yet to encounter another just like it - but should one materialize, I'll try to get that news to you somehow - stay tuned !

 

[kh195]

Thanks nieuport, appreciate your efforts in compiling this data. I noticed in your “orphan” Sauer mag thread you note 38h magazine # 299156. I’m curious, how is the numbering laid out on that magazine being only 25 guns away from my # 299131?

 

[nieuport]

kh195m good catch: only 25 guns away but likely these two pistols went to different "destinations" judging from the contrasting numbering patterns. Check out the top mag in the third column of post #8 above - here: I'll just paste a side-by-side (over-under?) image below. It's interesting on your mag how the "131. 2." is struck in a different, slightly larger font - almost as if perhaps the "299" was struck first awaiting pairing subsequently to a specific pistol's last three s/n digits. Hmmm, well I guess that's a bad idea because there goes the perfect-fitting of mag to it's specific pistol. Ahh, but it's the extra # "2." mag so maybe an armorer's replacement system? Maybe other possibilities for this, any ideas?

 

[Rycheme]

Nieuport: Thanks for the heads up on this pistol. I did not know it is rare and desirable.
My question would be is why??
It has been in my collection for many years and was picked up at a show in Tucson by my father.
He seemed to think that it was SS issued but i never found much about it.
I happened on your thread looking at new posts, since i haven't been here in a bit, looking for some info on a luger.
As i started reading the thread i thought yes i have one of those and could maybe help.
Anyway i will attempt to post pics this weekend, but should it have it's own thread?
Ryche

 

[nieuport]

Ryche, your double-eagle-37 is thread-worthy, trust me

 

[Rycheme]

Ok new thread it is, as soon as i get my lovely wife's help to post pictures.
What about it makes it unusual? I'm obviously missing something as it looks like most of the others pictured...
Ryche

 

[nomadr]

Ryche. Double Eagle marked 38H's are somewhat rare. Although not police issued and would not come with a numbered magazine. I don't think anyone knows the reason for the double marked eagles? Only assumptions?

A nice one to have! I own #272635.

Bob

 

[nieuport]

Here is a "popular" numbering pattern observed [so-far] only on Behördenmodell magazines:

Only one Modell 38/h magazine similar, but not identical, numbering pattern [so-far] (note: no extra mag indicator):

Post up [or PM me] your's today !