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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here are a couple of pictures of my Sauer M/1913 marked "S.B.1470" (Schutzpolizei Berlin??).

The gun has obviously had another marking earlier, but it has been partially overstamped. The original stamping is hard to make out, but it looks like: "S.B.S.II??" There are one or two more digits/letters at the end, but they are not possible to make out... Any suggestions??



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Student,
Since I started the "strange discussion," I figure I should chime in. The link Fritz refers to does stretch my theory about these marks to the limit but I think this link is more analogous to your pistol: http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2673

Prior to the final mark "S.B.1470." (Schutzpolizei Berlin) corresponding to the 1932 marking orders, I believe your pistol was marked "S.B.S.II.??" (Schutzpolizei Berlin Sud, Unit II, weapon ??) per the 1922 marking orders. I suspect that this pistol had a third, even earlier, mark consisting of only "S.II.??" that was brought into conformance with the 1922 orders by prefixing it with "S.B." My reasoning is the placement of the "S.B." toward the lower end of the grip strap. My proposed first mark (the canceled part) is nicely centered on the grip stap and it looks as if "S.B." was added. Another clue to this, found on some other pistols, is a difference in the font or quality of the two "S"s. However, the cancellation is too thorough for me to compare them on yours.

I would very much appreciate knowing the serial number of your pistol. I'm developing a database of Weimar police unit marks and yours will be an important addition. Thanks very much.
 

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Student1979,
I was looking again at the photo of your grip strap and it appears there was an early mark that was nearly, but not completely, ground off. It also looks like this mark started with "S." and it may have been upside down from the current mark, judging from the placement of the period. Does this appear to be correct?
 

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Student1979,

this Sauer 13 is interesting also from a technical point of view. Serial number 21,349 fits in the early SN range of the second variation of the model 13. See also

http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2903


I am estimating production time somewhere in 1915/16. Later, this pistol was amended by incorporating the so called "Zusatzsicherung", what is the small diagonal spring under the safety lever. Normal variations having the Zusatzsicherung are called the third variation, starting somewhere in the 138,xxx serial number range.

Sauers with lower SNs but having the Zusatzsicherung, are normally (if not: all) police owned pistols which were altered by incorporating the Zusatzsicherung.
So, the property number is not the only feature, what was altered on your pistol. I guess, you can pull up the rear sight for approximately 90 degrees, what was not possible on post WWI Sauer 13 pistols.

Regards

Martin
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The gun har serialnumber 21349. And it has a matching magazine.

And yes. When I look a little closer, it appears there was an early mark that was nearly, but not completely, ground off. This mark started with the letter "S.", and it was upside down from the current mark.

But I think the whole marking "S.B.S.II??" was applied at the same time. Both the first and the second S's are identical.

So that means that this gun has had 3 diffrent grip-markings in the period 1915-1945. All starting with the letter "s", and two of them are "Scutzpolizei-Berlin" markings.

And it is possible to pull up the rear sight for a bit more than 90 degrees actually. About 100 degrees.
 

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Peter,
Based on your observations, I suspect that the pistol was originally marked "S.II??", upside-down, in the 1919-21 time period and that when the 1922 orders were issued specifying the new marks as well as where they were to be placed, the original mark was ground off and "S.B.S.II??" stamped, as you say.

Thanks very much for adding evidence of yet one more variation to the way these Berlin police pistols were marked.

P.S. I will probably post and/or publish results of my research on Berlin police marks at some point in the future. May I have your permission to use the photo of the grip strap of your pistol?
 
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