I took some movies and then converted them into individual frames. Sadly whatever passes for shutter speed these days was too slow on my camera and the frame rate was too low too. Anyway, a never to be repeated experiment, here immortalized.
Similar, or worse, with a Frommer Stop jamb; sometimes you just don't have enough in your little fingers to pull the bolt back and you have to plant a stick in the ground or vise and try to push the entire barrel assembly from the muzzle to the rear knowing there is a live round in the chamber - don't even like to think about it. Couldn't imagine it in battlefield conditions.
The slow-mo is great, by the way! Jeff
GONRA dug out a couple 7.65mm Schwarzlose Pocket Model 1908 blowforward’s.
Relative to Stucki 08-12-2012 photos, my specimen 4006 has same “brown patina” finish
but has black plastic grips (one broken) instead of brown.
No right hand side frame proofs twixt grip front and trigger.
My 4006 has Crown M proofs at top right hand side on either side of frame slide junction.
My 4006 is similar to 1508 shown in Plate No. 388 in J. Howard Mathews “Firearms Identification”,
Vol. II except the crown B and crown U proofs are not present and crown N proofs are,
as shown in Plate No. 389.
According to the 1956 “Gun Digest” p. 129 and 1961 “Gun Digest” p. 146,
the Crown N proofs indicate production after 1912 in Germany.
My other specimen 3078 has same “brown patina” finish but is unmarked
with different black plastic grips. Modern replacement magazine.
No sign of marking logos and script being removed, finish looks original.
Frame right hand side has the (very faint?) Crown B and (distinct) Crown N proofs.
Internally, barrel stamped is 181 which I believe is the “gauge” used for 7.65mm
under the German proof law from 1891 to 1912.
“Apparent” serial number 3078 appears on the inside of the frame.
These proofs indicate the pistol was imported into German before 1912.
My load 123 IDEAL 308227 cast lead bullet, (95 grains?)
1.8 grains 5066 powder, CCI #500 primer Shot OK. Budged cases .
1956 “Gun Digest” article by A., Baron Engelhardt
“The Story of European Proof Marks” mentions on p. 127:
11.43 mm bore diameter was 51.05 bore and
7.62 mm bore diameter was 172.28 bore.
From this info, GONRA assumes a barrel stamped 181 is one of these goofy “gauges”
(here “181 bore”) used in the German Proof House Business when the Schwarzloses were manufactured.
Remember, the Schwarzlose actual bore diameter may be less than 7.65 mm nominal cartridge designation.
(Never checked, but some claim Schwarzloses hava somewhat tapered bore.)
At this point, am really getting in over my head.
Am constantly amazed (and green with envy) at the Original Source Data and info many Gunboard members
have or dig up from visiting original archives or procuring photocopies of original documents.
Rest of us have to rely on Secondary Sources.
Anything mentioned in my Schwarzlose comments should be reviewed by an “Original Source” guy.
My interest in all this is trying to figgerout what the story is on my “UNMARKED Schwarzlose 1908”.
Thanks for the article, I will print it out and include it with my gun so maybe my kids, will know what it is when I pass on. Its such a interesting piece of history. The two German proof marks appear to be almost random through the serial numbers? There certainly is not one point in time when the switch occurred?
My gun don't have serial number .Well, after spend few days on internet , I find very good article https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/SLZ/slz.html according Ed Buffaloe and Ed Dittus few first variations of this guns indeed don't have any external serial number, and a few with no external markings of any kind. Very interesting!, I guess I have one of this gun! Cool!
P.S. speaking about 181 , Early barrel/slides are stamped on the inside of the left extension with the number 181, which is a gauge measurement of the diameter of the barrel.
My name is Marcelo and I’m writing from Chile.
About a year ago I’ve inherited this little handgun. IMO the gun is in good conditions. I have some modern handguns and that’s why my grandpa considered that I was the one to inherit his old handgun. The rest of my relatives are anti guns so, nobody else was interested in the Schwarzlose.
I was doing some research and here in my country are just six registered Schwarzloses.
I would like to share with you some pictures that was taken about a week ago with my cellphone.
Regards from Chile
Hello and welcome to the forum! Your Schwarzlose is in amazing condition! Any background on how your grandpa came to posses it? I am surprised there is so many in Chile. What are the gun laws like there? Please do tell us more. Once again, welcome!
Well, I finally got around to having my Schwarzlose 1908 inspected and it seems the sear bar is broken and a piece of it is missing. I have called around and there are a few places that can fabricate that part but I need the measurements. A pic of the complete sear bar would be great too. Could anyone help me out with that? Thanks in advance.
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