I would imagine that some state laws have more say on this.
I know for a fact that attaching "stocks" on artillery or nay is only legally allowed on orginal (and like, or same type of guns, sucvh as artillery or navy, NOT vice versa), but I don't believe that the magazine issue affects national law at all.
You can own and use them legally in the South. But then we can also run deer and bear with hounds and have too many of both. In Kalifornia one may not own a 32 round 80 some year old magazine that costs a thousand dollars. In Kalifornia you can eat raw fish and buy $5 per cup coffee almost anywhere.
Thank you for the info, I have a C&R FFL and I have looked through the federal guidelines, I cannot find a reference to the snail drum at all. The stocks are listed and the rule is that it must be an ORIGINAL stock, ie, Arty flat board for an arty and a navy flat board for a navy. The navy version of the flatboard stock has specific dimensions.I also looked in the most recent regs for my state and cannot find any info on the snail drums for a Luger. Perhaps someone else could direct me to a publication that has written specifics regarding this issue.
I think that California has a 10 round limit on magazines. I recently acquired a WWII Hi-Power from a dealer out there - without a magazine. The dealer had it from a person on consignment and would not take the magazine from the individual.
I have also sold some Hi-Powers to a gentleman who lives in California. I shipped two to Hi-Powers a 01 dealer who told me not to send the magazines as he would not accept them.
If there is this problem with 13 round magazines, I would say that a snail drum would also have problems.
But every state is different. I would check with a dealer who is close to your place of residence. He would be able to provide information for your state.
Every year, an updated edition of a handy softbound book is published called:"How to own a gun in California and stay out of jail". This is a very useful item if you live here, and worth every penny of its cost. My copy was "borrowed" and I've yet to get it back, so this is from memory. I believe the following to be true: As of Jan.1,2000, you may not buy, sell,trade, or import into the state a magazine with a capacity of over 10 rounds. Magazines owned legally prior to that date are "grandfathered" in. New manufactured magazines are serial numbered, the old prebans are not. I have high cap mags owned prior to the cutoff date (you should have seen prices soar the fall of 1999!) but have never been confronted with a test of the interpretation of the laws. (and they change here regularly)
Gentlemen, there is no law restricting the ownership of high capacity magazines in the state of California. If you own them it is perfectly legal to use them on any legal firearm. However, the following is prohibited:
1. Purchase of a hicap magazine, either from an in state source or an out of state source.
2. Transferring ownership of a hicap magazine inside the state.
3. Importation of a hicap magazine into the state.
A law you cannot reasonably enforce is no law at all. The California authorities can make all the laws they want concerning high capacity magazines but they can't stop drug smuggling ,gangs , drive by shootings or illegal aliens from crossing their borders either. Elected officials who make these laws are kidding themselves and undermining the public trust. While California isn't the biggest joke on the Planet, it isn't because they're not trying. Jerry Burney
Jerry, you are absolutely correct. The California hicap magazine law is a farce and completely unenforceable. Magazines change hands with impunity and are imported into the state on a regular basis. The restriction is only enforced at gun shows.
With due respect to all, if you think the California hicap ban is unforceable, or only enforced at gun shows, you may be in for a shock. BLW will prowl the desert areas, where I live, and you are out target shooting, and if you are found with pre-ban weapons and or hicap mags, you are in a world of big hurt. Here in California, you can own hicap mags, but if required you must show proof of owning them prior to the ban. Buying a Mini-14 today, and bring in hicap mag from out of state tomorrow, will not work in court....if you had a Mini-14 prior to the ban, and you are found using the gun unlawfully, you are required to have proof of buying the mags prior to the ban...you are 100% correct Jerry it is a farce...but it is enforced, and it is enforcable...do you guys remember the story on Luger Forum awhile back, military man on transfer orders, traveling between I believe it was Arizona and Washington...with his personal weapons/mags that were Calif items. Was in an accident in So. Calif. and guns/mags were discovered and conficated???
PoliceLuger, Yes I do remember the story. I wonder how it shook out?
I guess you could say any enforcement officer could hassle you out at the range but in my mind this is not where high cap mags are likely to be used in crimes. More like office buildings or wharehouses where you used to work before you were fired. Or in drive by shootings.
What I meant by enforcable is this. I live in Yuma AZ and ten miles away is the Calif. border. Unlike Mexico, which has a checkpoint at the border, California has none, and I can drive into the state with a trunkload of high cap mags and who will stop me? I can then distribute them to all my Militia friends and like most gun laws only those willing to comply will be affected. Those who wish to break the law can do so with absolute immunity unless you flaunt the bannana mag out at the range. Most scofflaws don't go shooting at a range anyway but out into the desert or the high mountain areas where no one is likely to be around. Where I shoot in Yuma, the Adair range, it is used by Border patrol, Military Special operations , local Police and other authoritys. I have never been questioned about any weapon I have used there except on two occasions and both times young Military or Law enforcement people were interested in WW2 Lugers. This is the difference between California and Arizona. Sad to see such a great State go to hell. I won't even drive accross the border unless I absolutely have to. Jerry Burney
Perhaps I should read it"....where ONE use to work before ONE was fired"....I was never fired, and I am sure you did not mean it that way. No there is no hicap mag police that I know of, but when you get caught just plinking in the desert, or at a formal range, you will have a lot to explain. Wished we could move out of state, and looking forward to that time, but as for now California is the joke of the nation, and we better take the laws serious. Still all my Mini14,M1A, 30 carb, Browning H-P mags are grandfathered and OK to use....this could change real soon.
PoliceLuger...NO! I did not mean to imply where you or I or anyone else used to work! This was simply a hypothetical exercise for demonstration purposes...You are quite correct in your analysis of the enforcement agencies where you live, I am sure, and as you say, it could change at any moment. I empathize with my fellow bretheren who are unfortunate enough to be stuck in this state which does not recognize a basic tenant of Constitutional law, you are innocent untill proven guilty. If there were any sense to this law there would be some way to protect yourself from seizure and arrest for possesing a "pre ban" magazine except thru providing a reciept. At least there are places one can go to escapr tyranny...for now. Good Luck my Friend, Jerry
What Howards says about HiCap magazines in CA rings true...
When I go to my local shooting ranges and the range master checks my guns before allowing me on the range, the question of my pre-ban guns/magazines usually comes up. I have xeroxed copies of my sale receipts for such guns in a baggie in each of my gun cases. The receipts show I bought them in the late 1980's...
When I bought my Para-Ordnance P-12/45...I did so with 3 extra magazines. My receipt shows this as well...
Once I show this paperwork, there are no more questions, and I get on the range. I should mention both ranges near my home are frequented by lots of local law enforcement folks. One range is next door to a local PD headquarters...so the ranges might be a bit conservative...
Seems to me the Achilles heel to all this baloney is a good computer with a copier. I can manufacture about any reciept you want from where ever you need. What makes these boneheads think they are enforcing anything? Not that I am prone to doing this but the average idiot could produce sufficient paperwork from an old phone book tied a gunshop that had gone out of business ten years ago. Who's to prove otherwise?
Of course in AZ where I shoot, the range is unsupervised and free. At my Colorado home I own an extra 40 acres laying around next to my house here in the mountains and that's where my range is . Shooting places are tightening up all over America, used to be easy to find a place but no more. Jerry Burney
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