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Discussion Starter #1
I think it is a sneak? proof WaA66 is on the right side of receiver, crown over N left side toggle upright , crown over N one on left side or receiver laying down, grip strap markings L.M.G.212. # 2389t matching mag. mag and sear safety .My Dad spent 27 mounts in a German P.O.W. camp when liberated he got all his papers that the Germans had when he got home he brought 3 lugers with him, all was noted on discharged papers .This is the onley one left. I think I have something nice. If any body can tell me what I Have thank you in advance
 

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Agree with Gunnertwo. Pictures are needed but IMO it's not a sneak. The frame is military, WW1 era, and the gun was later pressed into police service. Anything else would be guessing.
 

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From what I can see, the frame is from WW1 and made by DWM. The front of the frame was scrubbed of the original serial number and a new one stamped. The receiver is commercial and likely made by DWM in the late 1920's as the toggle is unmarked. (Ref. is Gortz & Sturgess, page 489) The WaA66 is a pressure proof stamp and may have been applied after the pistol was converted for police use is a critical part was replaced.

Grip marking incorrectly interpreted so I've deleted my statement.
 

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Are you sure??
L. Mg. stands -in my opinion - for Landjägerei Magdeburg.

If the abbreviation stands for machine gun (…) if should be MG... (You mentioned L.M.G. 212, but the picture tells another story: L.Mg.212).
For that it might be "Landjägerei Magdeburg",Waffe 212

And that is a former police unit during the Weimar Republic...

May be a sneak after all???

Best regards from Germany,

Tom
 

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Look...


MG2.jpg The same abbreviation…! Standing for Landjägerei Magdeburg. Mg is the abbreviation of Magdeburg
MG1.jpg This ist the correct abbreviation for machine gun… M.G.
 

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It is "where" the periods are!
L.Mg. is Landjaegerei Magdeburg; which is what is on the OP pistol, definitely a "police" luger.
L.M.G. can be something else!

J, welcome.
"Sneak" is a misnomer, it is a collector/marketing term for a luger pistol with a blank middle toggle.
These arose from a not completed contract by the "Riff" in Morocco to DWM, which were built without the marking; DWM was "stuck"
with them when they were not paid for and not delivered. They found their way to other buyers.

I agree the frame has definitely been re-numbered; when or why is hard to say.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks , is the magazine the right one for the gun? is the Gun wanted by collectors, I know only if they don't have one. what is is it worth, I took it to Cabela's they offered $ 800.00 or should I just leave it to the Grandson.
 

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Yes, my interpretation is incorrect. I went by the OP's original text and missed the difference.

WRT Cabelas, keep it and give it to your grandson. It has family history and belonged to his great grandfather. It should be a family heirloom. Be sure to keep all documents that are relevant.
 

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It does look to be in very good condition, It is hard to say who renumbered the gun. The factory was usually much better at keeping the digits level. "t" block at DWM post WW-I would have been toward the 1930's. It also has a blank toggle.

It is a police gun with both the sear safety and magazine safety still intact. That is not so common, and is, in my opinion, desirable.

While the renumbered frame would normally bother me, the gun is clearly a police rework, and it's probable that the renumbering was done at that time.

"WaA66" would be an army Waffenamt (Weapons office) acceptance stamp, not a proof stamp. The crown/N is the proof mark. The WaA66 inspector would have been active at Mauser in Oberndorf just after the factory moved there from Berlin.

But... here's another from the "t" block with that mark:


and another in the "t" block:


The last will give you an idea of actual value. It's described as a "Nazi Mauser Sneak Police Rework", which probably describes your pistol as well.
 

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I wouldn't jump to a conclusion about a frame renumber. DWM got pretty sloppy about finishing the front face of the frame half-a-decade on into the 20s. By the t suffix one wouldn't expect surplus frames to be lying around. What are the marks in the front frame well? Also, the WaA66 was an army officer at DWM, by time of the move to Mauser in 1930 this stamp is no longer seen.. These pistols were new production, not reworks.

--Dwight
 

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The frame front sure looks like it was faced off, the frame is a little shorter than the receiver and the "curve" is an edge from the facing operation; I believe the T was stamped just low enough to survive(untouched) the few thousandths removed from the receiver.
 

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Don,

I agree that at first glance the suspicion is reasonable. I can tell you that in my collection I have Alphabet Commercial examples which have frame front/receiver mismatches as you see here, both with an "edged" curve and regular curve; frame fronts which are fractionally longer than the receiver front; and even one which has a slightly "edged" curve which is fractionally longer than the receiver. Some of the "edged" curves have letter suffixes which extend past the edge. I have observed many others; Alphabet Commercials really are a sloppy mixed bag in this regard.

Comparison of front frame well marks is the only way to be sure.

--Dwight
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks for the help. What do you mean a sloppy mixed bag ? does that mean it is not correct, trying to understand if I have junk or what, as far as collectable. Thanks
 

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Thanks for the help. What do you mean a sloppy mixed bag ? does that mean it is not correct, trying to understand if I have junk or what, as far as collectable. Thanks
Not at all, I apologize for giving you such an idea. What I am referring to is this:

When the Luger was first manufactured, the profile of the front of he frame--the curve from the horizontal area just forward of the trigger guard as it sweeps upward to vertical--was smoothly and cleanly machined. It was very carefully matched to the length of the receiver extension, as though the frame and receiver were machined as one. This care of "fit and finish" extended until late 1909-early 1910, when variations begin to be observed in length disparity between the frame front and the receiver front. Very slight , to be sure--fractions of a mm--but noteworthy. In all cases, the profile curve remains finely crafted. The overall "fit and finish" of the Luger began to decline with the advent of the army contract, and gradually worsened through WWI.

One of the things an experienced collector looks for when examining a Luger is this frame front characteristic. If the profile curve is discontinuous--has a definite "corner" where the frame front becomes abrupty vertical, and a distinct difference in the receiver extending farther than the frame--this can be evidence that the receiver has been shortened in the course of removing the serial number. The purpose can be benign--modification of a pistol during a recognized rework; or it can be nefarious, in modifying a common Luger to a rare and desirable variation.

In 1921 or so, and continuing to the end of DWM's production of the Luger, the frame front profile finish varied greatly as I mentioned above. The "sloppiness" refers to the lack of care taken during manufacture of his one feature, and the "mixed bag" refers to the inconsistency of this manufacturing feature from gun to gun. In the case of your pistol, it is "correct" within the context of contemporary manufacturing, and any conclusion drawn from your example must be considered speculative.

--Dwight
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks understand now, which of these tools if any go with the luger 1will keep them? can I sell on this site? I also have 2 p38 hard holsters CXB 42 gxy 42,1 hard holster Berlin 2 soft holsters one 1965 one 1963 , 1 shoulder holster MAX stelzer berlin 1971, 2 shoulder stocks for 45, may be some one can tell what they are worth.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I have not got a reply on the last post am I not in the right place to ask questing's or should I start a new post ?,can you sell here. Is it ok to use WD 40 on guns, I have used it on all guns for years. How do get off rust spots off my Luger the ones that are on the gun was there when I got from my Dad thanks again.
 
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