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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’ve always lived by the adage, “If you have to ask you can’t afford it”. This is one of the rare exceptions to the rule. I purchased the Kreighoff book and have made my way through trying to absorb as much knowledge as I can. I have the funds and I’m starting down the window shopping section of the journey. Kreighoffs are not a common piece and finding anywhere that has an abundance to peruse is difficult. I’ve looked at Simpson Ltd and that’s given me an idea of which I would like. Other than boots on the ground trudging through shows, where are some other good hunting grounds?

TYIA
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Be cautious while negotiating the minefield. You could lose an arm and a leg quite easily.
That’s my concern, Lugers are hard enough let alone specific higher dollar subsets of Lugers. I wanted a Waffenamt Kongsberg and when picked one out eventually I made sure it was a documented example. Obviously there are many well faked examples of those out there too.
That being said, I’m not looking for a documented Kreighoff per say, but something that can be vetted. I’d rather pass on a winner and regret it later than to pounce on junk.
 

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Good choice and good luck.

That said you should figure out what variation you want.
For the limited production numbers the number of variations is off the scale.

JMHO but 1937's are the high water mark if you want the best looking and they are the most consistent .

Seems odd using the word consistent with anything about HK lugers but again 1937's are best IMHO.

Remember these are all from the same parts run and are all similar .

Probably a good idea to go with a common date in slightly worn condition as it won't break the bank.

BTW if the book you are referring to is the blue book by Gibson it is in need of updating .

I ALWAYS take a good one with when I look at another .
 

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1933 FORD NUT said:
ALWAYS take a good one with when I look at another .

That’s awesome advice for any Luger collector purchase
It is, however, variations can be huge because of storage, original bluing etc. I say this because my friend Bill Munis had a huge collection. He pulled out 5 1937's if I remember right and asked me which one was a reblue (answer was always none of them), and he liked nice looking guns. I found it amazing how many looked a bit different, although I agree with what is said, the more guns you can look at the better.
I have seen some Very black Simson's, personally I don't like them, but if the other features are good, i.e. no rounded, left ear looks normal, etc, then it is likely good. Just my 2 cents :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Good choice and good luck.

That said you should figure out what variation you want.
For the limited production numbers the number of variations is off the scale.

JMHO but 1937's are the high water mark if you want the best looking and they are the most consistent .

Seems odd using the word consistent with anything about HK lugers but again 1937's are best IMHO.

Remember these are all from the same parts run and are all similar .

Probably a good idea to go with a common date in slightly worn condition as it won't break the bank.

BTW if the book you are referring to is the blue book by Gibson it is in need of updating .

I ALWAYS take a good one with when I look at another .
Thanks for the info and yes, the blue book by Gibson. I bought the most recent printing straight from Kreighoff’s website, but I think the last update was 2006 from what I read about it. Unfortunately do not have a spare to take with me, but if you have one you’d like to provide I would be more than happy to oblige ;) … In all seriousness I appreciate the insight. I know just enough to be dangerous to myself. I’m in no hurry so trying to get a lay of the land, it’s a different hunt than any of the other pistols that I’ve searched out. Will definitely loop back through if/when I find something of interest.
 

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I found the best way to KNOW Krieghoff's is to take apart known originals. They are quite unique as Luger's go. I would never buy one without the ability to dismantle it. Gibson's book may very well be outdated and have a few mistakes but there is none better out there. STUDY any reliable resource you know of..Photo's won't always show what you want to see..Your seller has to cooperate and have an ironclad return policy. But YOU have to be the ultimate arbiter.

My only Krieg is a old beater warhorse 1936. It's all original though and I learned a LOT from it. Fortunately some fellow friends/collectors have let me take apart some stunning original Krieghoff's and I learned/confirmed much more to my great satisfaction. But they are not all carbon copies although Krieghoff had some very interesting ways of doing things you will not see in Mauser pistols. Only study and a passionate interest will save you on a purchase unless you buy from a knowledgeable krieghoff collector or get lucky.
 
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It’s a worthwhile topic but one that lends itself to face to face conversation and comparisons of verified originals to verified fakes more so than a forum format IMO. A real understanding of fakes requires an understanding and eye as to how fakes are created and this is complicated by the facts that there are usually many ways that fakes are created for every variation faked (HKs, navies, death heads to name a few) and I assume most HK fakes began life as a Mauser, Erfurt or DWM base pistol therefore mother than scrubbing markings without leaving a trace of the work what machining, finishing and fake marking characteristics does one look for tip them off? Maybe I’m a simpleton but I find the skill required to fully scrub and re-mark every marking on a Luger and then refinish without leaving obvious signs of the work to be a very high bar for a very low motive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It’s a worthwhile topic but one that lends itself to face to face conversation and comparisons of verified originals to verified fakes more so than a forum format IMO. A real understanding of fakes requires an understanding and eye as to how fakes are created and this is complicated by the facts that there are usually many ways that fakes are created for every variation faked (HKs, navies, death heads to name a few) and I assume most HK fakes began life as a Mauser, Erfurt or DWM base pistol therefore mother than scrubbing markings without leaving a trace of the work what machining, finishing and fake marking characteristics does one look for tip them off? Maybe I’m a simpleton but I find the skill required to fully scrub and re-mark every marking on a Luger and then refinish without leaving obvious signs of the work to be a very high bar for a very low motive.
I’m from Minnesota originally, a friend there said during the 80’s there was a known Luger “forger”, so good that one could not tell the difference then if it was an original or fake. It got to be so much of a problem that he said nobody would buy a Luger out of Minnesota for fear that it was one of the fakes. It’s a high risk, high reward for the bottom feeders of this collecting field.
 

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From MPLS MN myself and am well aware of the bad apples popping up .
The local one was-is more of a forger as many well know .

I chased HK's back then and was told of a master refinisher that had done a couple hundred .
Never looked into it as I got screwed on my first HK .
Randall Gibson told me Ralph used to own it .
Lesson learned and from that point on I only looked at the guns-paid NO ATTENTION to what the seller wanted me to hear .

By that time I had a couple real ones and they were my crutch as comparing a good one to a messed with one is not hard .

Never seen a redone one that could stand up to the "rollaround test " in as many different light conditions as possible .
This is simply having a good one in one hand and one you are looking at in the other hand.
Look at them side by side from exactly the same angles in as many different light conditions as you can find .

The above mentioned fakes from other makers guns are not a threat as they are not HK parts so easy to tell .

As mentioned above yes these do not all look exactly the same .
Not a big surprise as they are kinda hand built .
BUT they are still HK's and look nothing like mausers .

Not going to ramble but if you do your homework here there are many good threads here on these guns .
They have kinda faded into the sunset and I don't bother with them much anymore but they are still here if you look .

Good luck and post pics if you find one you like .


I’m from Minnesota originally, a friend there said during the 80’s there was a known Luger “forger”, so good that one could not tell the difference then if it was an original or fake. It got to be so much of a problem that he said nobody would buy a Luger out of Minnesota for fear that it was one of the fakes. It’s a high risk, high reward for the bottom feeders of this collecting field.
Dave
 

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Krieghoffs are definitely a minefield, but with those books and a good amount of collectors/dealers, finding one for a decent price isn't necessarily that hard. Always worth it to check around auctions online or around where you live. Sometimes, poor photos or lack of attendence can help if you're able to see it in hand.

One of the regrets I have is not buying a 1936 HK from checkpointcharlies when I had the chance about 6 1/2 years ago. Had just gotten to my 3nd duty station with a good amount of cash. He had one for 2 grand, but I hesitated on it. Was restored, but done well. Then again, I also missed out on a three digit naval Papa Nambu and a Double Dated/HZA marked Russian capture DWM he had as well the year prior to that. Lessons learned!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
This one popped up on Legacy and wanted to get opinions. To my layman’s eye the finish looks correct, some oxidation but overall looks like a decent example. How does the price look on this as well? Within my price range so would love some opinions.

 

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Tom is giving you a valid description. If you have an issue within a fair period of time, he will work with you.

Price is enough, but you will receive exactly what you see, Pics are very clear.

If you want an HK, can you do better? You may wait a while before you get another fair chance.
 
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