Jan C. Still Lugerforums banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

Spandau Lugers

20K views 113 replies 28 participants last post by  Edward Tinker 
Many years ago, it was first mentioned in writing (of a book) I believe in Jone's book if I remember correctly. So since it was many years ago, it is hard to pin down. Further Spandau was actually a repair facility for the military, but not a manufacturer, that is why there is doubt about Spandau marked guns. It makes sense that they might have "repaired" them, but why bwould they have "made" them?

Possibly other collectors with more experience can give some further information?

Ed
 
Thanks Mike, it is nice having you here, the comment "not factory original" makes sense to me. So after 1964, did these Spandaus appear?

Ed
 
Was trying to get other collectors to say outright, that in their opinion that Spandaus appeared afterwards.

But you are right Garfield, Mike was fairly clear in his meaning.

Thanks,

Ed
 
they are wrong.

It is highly unlikely that Spandau made lugers. It is possible, although unlikely that some toggles were made / stamped as Spandau.

I know that there was a gun collecting show where they said that there are 6 or 7 known / real Spandau's, but I personally find it unlikely, as does many collectors to have new made / manufactured Spandau lugers.

New manufacturer would take hundreds of thousands of marks for the tooling (and specific tooling required for luger manufacture, so Spandau being an arsenal rebuild facility would be immaterial). As an example; Simson received their tooling at no cost to themselves from the Erfurt factory, this is documented in their 1920's contract. They simply did not want to, nor did they feel they could afford the manufactuer of the tooling, and this was for what was eventually a 12,000 gun contract. If Spandau had made complete guns, then there would be thousands of them remaining, not a handful.


Ed

PS: As another example of where handguns.mag.com is wrong; Vickers put DWM parts together, but did not "make" lugers.
 
For the Simson information, it is in Goertz and also in their Simson Legende' book, both in Deutch, plus other articles. It is new infromation, and why we included it. This infromation is in our book that is coming out in July.


The vast majority of fradusters know exactly what to do, so when I hear, well we shouldn't be talking about that because "folks might be listening".. What bull****, of course they are listening, most of them are smart folks, we just have to keep ahead of them...

Ed
 
thanks Villers, I wish Die Pistole 08 was in english, but I enjoy the german copy I have. He also discusses the Simson guns, in fact covers it in 7 or 8 assorted pages. Graham and I had them translated, just to ensure we were on the right track (Graham's deutch is much better than mine).

Joachim dies unexpectadly several years ago, but he provided several excellent books that have an excellent reputation to this day (they are accurate). So, take heed of what Villers stated from the book...

Ed
 
Don, good question. Obviously there is a "standard marking" as they did produce weapons during that timeframe.

I think your point is that we should be able to look at original Spandau markings and compare the markings against Erfurt markings; while comparing to Spandau Luger markings.


Ed

PS: Graf, I'd love to meet you, at a minimum we should chat on the phone :)
 
Whiting is not original to a lugers toggle, as the only part that was original to having white was the safety area, all other areas would have been in the blue. No white in the date stamp, no white in the toggle, no white in the proofs, only the safety area. So, yes, I suggested it. To many collectors, it is felt the whiting could hide the actual marking underneath the white, so it is not unusual to take the white off, photograph it etc.

But no, if you are unsure what to use, then don't do it.
 
doc, Jan Still said the same thing on page 2...
quote:
A long time reliable collector/dealer has reported observing such SPANDAU middle toggle links in a workshop (along with other fake parts). This workshop has been around almost 40 years (the workshop owner is now deceased).

All that would be required to create one of these SPANDAU Lugers would be the SPANDAU marked and accepted middle toggle link and a 1917 or 1918 dated Erfurt Luger. The serial number and letter suffix could be scrubbed from the front of the frame and the serial number scrubbed from the left receiver and barrel. The new two or three digit serial numbers (using the last two digits originally on most parts) could be engraved (crude) or stamped (better). If the Luger had a two digit date the restamping or engraving would be much simpler. The additional two acceptance stamps could be added to the right receiver in a similar way.
 
As Doc said, facts speak for themselves, and we want 1st hand not 2nd hand information. That said, Jan's "2nd" hand is pretty sound word; I am sure he knows the collector who he speaks of, he just does not desire to "name, names".

"Generally, it is best to know, not speculate, that said, theories are always welcomed, it is when folks start to say, my cousin heard that your sister said...


Ed
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top