Ed, I have never come across another source other than Walter as to what transpired during the Simson acquisition of the Erfurt machinery? (even Jan Still didn’t offer much as to this- that I read anyway in his Weimar Lugers, perhaps I overlooked this?)
You say Simson paid nothing for the machinery? Walter says they paid 800,000 + for it?
Just curious as to your source?
As for Spandau, I suspect you refer to their capacity as it relates to the P08? Spandau was in Imperial times THE arsenal and if I had to pick a fraudulent source for my fake P08 or anything else Spandau would be that choice, especially as I know a thing or two about the facility.
They are said to have had 7,500 employed, 6,000 on the Gewehr98, and by wars end had mfg approximately a million rifles (surely 1899-1917, not just during the war). Though by 1917/1918 with the shift in doctrine they were pulling away from rifle production significantly (I don’t think they “completed” a single Gewehr98 in 1918- receivers exist but all so far “seem” to be Weimar assembled), and speculation is Spandau moved that excess capacity to the MG as they were significant in that regard.
Fact is no arsenal or firm (not even the Suhl firms which have a long tradition of cooperation for military contracts) were more geared towards subcontracting parts in 1917/1918 and Spandau would be a perfect facility to handle assembling rejected parts as Walter suggests.
That said, I too have doubts, namely the c/K is like no acceptance I have seen on a Spandau product; and though doctrinal changes were pushing more towards the handier Kar98a, pistols, grenades and above all the MG I can’t see a need for Spandau to take on such a project (in 1915 several firms, Suhl and Danzig especially took on a similar project with the Gewehr98, - Dresden as well 1915-1918 as it relates to rifles) considering the success of DWM and Erfurt with the P08?
I mean every other time such was done there was a genuine need- the 1915 build up and the shortage of the Gewehr98 that drove doubling of firms making the rifle (the expediency was done as a stop gap), in 1918 the 98a starting at Danzig was because of the fact only Erfurt was making the 98a so another firm familiar with the production was chosen.
As important as the P08 or 98a was to doctrine the MG was paramount and this is shown in the 1917-1918 period… perhaps Spandau tinkered with this P08 project as a potential source for its excess manpower as it moved away from the Gewehr98? Perhaps they did as most suspect- move towards the MG?
What is sure is if someone fraudulently made these Spandau P08 they were knowledgeable to events and picked the best arsenal to use!
quote:Originally posted by Weimar_Police
New manufacturer would take hundreds of thousands of marks for the tooling (and specific tooling required for luger manufacture, so Spandau being an arsenal rebuild facility would be immaterial). As an example; Simson received their tooling at no cost to themselves from the Erfurt factory, this is documented in their 1920's contract. They simply did not want to, nor did they feel they could afford the manufactuer of the tooling, and this was for what was eventually a 12,000 gun contract. If Spandau had made complete guns, then there would be thousands of them remaining, not a handful.
Ed
PS: As another example of where handguns.mag.com is wrong; Vickers put DWM parts together, but did not "make" lugers.