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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've had this one a while, but never got around to posting it.
It's an Erfurt 1916, that has been Police modified; sear safety, magazine safety, and re-barreled.
The barrel appears to be a Simson produced piece, and it is also marked with the T/P on the right side.
(I've had a PTV for a few years, and finally a T/P to keep it company)
All matching numbers with the exception of the magazine.

Any thoughts on when this was re-barreled?

As always, comments or critiques are welcome, I'm always learning.
 

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Ned,
According to the books, " Police Lugers" & " Simson Lugers", both by Ed Tinker, Simson's was awarded the contract to repair Lugers in 1925. In 1934 the PTV became the PT, so it was probably after 1934.
Pat
 

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Over the years Pat, I have found that the repair / refurbishment / new rifles / pistols, was awarded in 1924 - as there are 1924 dated rifles.
This one would have received a new barrel as Pat said, I am sure.
I know that tens of thousands of lugers were hidden away (see weimar lugers if I remember right), where at some point they were issued to police / army - and probably corrosive ammo from WW1 and they had so-so barrels, so they were replaced, but its all conjecture on why.
 

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Ed,
Over the years, I've found that Life is mostly conjecture. If you can conjecture right, about half the time, life is good.😙
Pat
P,S. Ned, You're welcome.
 

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Ned,
According to the books, " Police Lugers" & " Simson Lugers", both by Ed Tinker, Simson's was awarded the contract to repair Lugers in 1925. In 1934 the PTV became the PT, so it was probably after 1934.
Pat
It is very unlikely that Simson was ever doing any repair work. The Reichsheer had Zeugamt Spandau, Kassel, and Zeithain for that. They made repair parts, sure, but not the actual repairs.

As to the pistol here, probably impossible to say when it was done. The P/T and FP seen on this was in use for most of the 1930s and even into the war years. It uses an earlier spare barrel, so the rework probably dates to the mid to late 1930s, but who knows.

Just as an aside, the PTV did not cease to exist, or so it appears. As late as 1944, Himmler's office is addressing orders and memos to the "Polizeischule für Technik und Verkehr – Zeugamt". I don't know if there are documents backing up the name change thing, but it doesn't appear to be the case. Technische Polizeischule may have been an alternate, maybe less formal, name for the facility, or maybe only the actual technical school itself (under the larger umbrella of the PTV).
 

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Insurgent,
If you have Ed's book, " Simson Lugers', you will see on page 8, 3rd par. that Simson was awarded a contract to refurbish WW1 Lugers on May 22, 1922 with thr approval of the IMKK.
Pat
 

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Insurgent,
If you have Ed's book, " Simson Lugers', you will see on page 8, 3rd par. that Simson was awarded a contract to refurbish WW1 Lugers on May 22, 1922 with thr approval of the IMKK.
Pat
I don't have a copy of this book. Does it actually produce this document? Or does it simply state this is the case?

Gortz mentions no such document, stating that there is basically no documentation aside from the IMKK license for production of 11,000 pistols per year given to Simon in 1921. He even says that it is "very unlikely" any reworking was done before the 1923 contract was signed. The 1925 contract only mentions repair parts, not repair of old weapons. After WW1, factories didn't do this kind of work, generally speaking, the newly created Zeugamts did.
 

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insurgent,
You'll have to ask Ed about his sources. That's above my paid grade.
As far who reworked this gun, the ZugAmt was not bashful about marking their
work. Who ever reworked, the Technische Polizeischul stmped off on it sometime after 1934...............................................................................
Pat
 

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insurgent,
You'll have to ask Ed about his sources. That's above my paid grade.
As far who reworked this gun, the ZugAmt was not bashful about marking their
work. Who ever reworked, the Technische Polizeischul stmped off on it sometime after 1934...............................................................................
Pat
Oh, the police Zeugamt in Berlin (PTV-Zeugamt or TP-Zeugamt, whatever name you want to use) definitely reworked this pistol.
 
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