[George]

Dear All:

On e bay, there is a German holster that the seller is claiming it is a Luger holster Rare transitional P.08/P.38 version. See below.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2288831846&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

To me it looks like a cut down 1941 Luger holster! I know a Luger fits in a P38 holster but I would say that trying to remove it from the holster when on you belt as a side arm would be very difficult! I think what is being sold is a fake!

Below is my question and sellers response! Seems like a nice enough guy.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dear blcman,

Dear Friend: Was just wondering where you found the information on this holster stating that it is a transitional? I would be interested in reading any publication that you may have that states this as I am a avid Luger & P38 collector. It appears to me that someone cut the top 3/4" of the spare magazine leather so a P38 magazine would fit ruined a nice 1941 Luger holster.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello: That would be a person's first thoughts, however; I sent photos to Gene Bender and he agreed with my assessment. He kept the photos and I gave him permission to use in his next book dealing with just such holsters. I am certain that he would happy to confirm this to you if you wish to contact him. The most telling aspect of this holster is that the spare mag pouch is a P.38 pouch and not a modified P.08 pouch. I assure you that it left the factory in this configuration. I think it would be an asset to any P.38 collection. However, if you buy it and are not satisfied with it, send it back for a refund. Thanks for your interest. Bill

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Regards,

George

 

[Ron Smith]

Hi George,
I saw it lastnight, and I fully agree with you. It's very obvious that it's cut down. I've had a few p.38 holsters and have looked at everyone I've come across. I have never seen a mag pouch shaped like that one. And you can see the stitch holes where the outside was cut away. 2 to 1 the guys a just a BS artist. And I would doubt the return policy.
I ain't gonna bid on it!
Ron

 

[garfield]

Most people that can bs well come across as nice guys; Bill Clinton is a classic example. IMHO, this is a dicked with P08 holster. If the holster is, indeed, modified for a P38 by being fitted with a mag pouch that will accept the P38 mag why is the pouch stitched in the original stitch holes punched for the P08 mag? Note the original/extra stitchs at the left top of the holster. A P38 mag is longer, front to back, than a P08 mag, consequently, the only modification appears to consist of cutting the original P08 mag pouch at an angle at the top rather than fitting this holster with a larger mag pouch.

Note that the top hole on "new P38 pouch" is cut through to the top? Not very professional.

But then, Bender seems to agree with the seller. By-the-way, I would not hold my breath until Bender's new book on "modified" holsters hits the market. Of course, I have been accused of being overly pessimistic and I have reason to believe that there is more than a bit of truth in these accusations.

 

[Jan C Still]

I agree with George, Ron, and Garfield. I would be surprised if Bender had a different opinion.
Jan

 

[George]

I guess we have the same option on this holster. However, it has six bids and up to $37.00! It just goes to show that some people will bid and pay good money for just about anything.

By the way, did you guys see the fine tune front sight tool, Item number: 2287337976 that went for @$178.50 on e bay? I thought these were a $50.00-$60.00 item as I am in need of one!

Regards,

George

 

[keoki7]

I owned that very holster at one time. When I sold it I sold it as a P38 modified holster which is what I believe it to be. The two most telling aspects of this holster are that the tool pouch has NEVER had a tool in it and second that the stitching holes above the mag pouch have never seen a stitch; the pouch was slant cut prior to being sewn to the body.

 

[Ron Smith]

Well now, anybody got a sand blaster? I need to get this egg off my face.
It sure looks cut down in the photos. Maybe he should use a different angle.
Ron

 

[George]

Dear Friends:

Regarding the Rare transitional P.08/P.38 version, Ex+ holster on e bay, perhaps the final selling price will determine what it truly is.

With all due respect to everyone, and after looking at different pictures of holsters, and inspecting my own P38 & Luger holsters, I still think it is a cut Luger holster for the following reason.

No question it started off as a P08 holster as it is so marked. After I looked real close at the picture of this holster, no question that the magazine pouch has a slight slant at the base as P38 holsters have. However, look at the way the magazine pouch at the base is stitched to the holster. It is stitched straight across and not at an angle like P38 holsters are stitched. If the magazine pouch was truly for a P38, I would think that it would have to be stitched at an angle to accommodate the slant or angle of the feed lips of a P38 magazine. In the picture below, the base of the pouch appears to be stretched to form the slant.

My guess is that someone formed the magazine pouch to accommodate a P38 magazine and cut the top of the magazine pouch so the magazine would fit in the P08 holster. This can easily be done by inserting a magazine into a water soaked magazine pouch and that would expand the pouch and thus put the slight angle on the bottom of the pouch.

If the extra magazine pouch was truly for a P38 magazine, I would think that it would have been stitched at an angle in the same manner as when the magazine pouch is stitched on a P38 holster to accommodate the magazine.

Yet, I am not an expert on this matter and that is why I questioned it. Will be interesting to see what the holster sells for on e bay.

Regards,

George


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[lugerholsterrepair]

Gentlemen, Robert Tracey wrote and asked about this very subject and below you will find some thoughts about it....

Robert. Thanks for writing. I know of the holsters you are speaking
of. I have seen several in the past few years. There is currently one on eBay.

I cannot say authoratatively if this was the case or not. The last one I examined, it was in my shop for some repair, Appeared to be factory made. The magazine pouch was P-38 although it had extra stitching holes above the top. I don't know how to explain these seeming irregularities. It would seem self evident that if the Germans wanted to make a P-38 holster it would be un necessary to make a P-08 and modify the mag pouch. It just dosen't make sense to me that they would do that unless they had many P-08 holsters they didn't need and modified them. If this was the case they would have had to take off the P-08 mag pouches and install the P-38 size. From what I have been able to observe, the tops were simply cut off to P-38 length. New, wider mag pouches were not installed in their intirety.
As you have two examples that appear to have been made originally with P-38 size mag pouches it seems that perhaps the Germans had some holsters that were in pieces, needed completion and so they made them into P-38 holsters since they needed P-38's and not P-08's. That would explain the tool pouches etc. that appear in the top lid. Your guess is as good as mine Robert!



Jerry. Need a favor, in monitoring the P38 forum we keep seeing references to P38's being captured or brought back in Luger Holsters. While we know that the weapon works. However, the spare magazine pouch does not accept the larger P38 magazine EXCEPT. I have two 42 dated Luger holsters that carried P38's along with the spare magazine, on these holsters the spare pouch was made larger to accept the P38 magazine, APPEARS TO BE MADE NOT STRETCHED. I tried P38 magazines in different dates and they will not fit unless they would be forced so hard as to rip the leather or break the stitching very similar to the problem with the CZ38 holster. A second gentleman reported that his Father in Law captured a P38 carried in a Luger holster in Italy in 1944 and it was carried in a 42 dated holster with a P38 magazine carried in the spare pouch. I think that as P38's became more prevalent that the later Luger holsters were designed to accept either a Luger or P38.Since you get so many holsters could you sort of check out my theory. I have a bunch of guys thinking I am nuts and will not even consider the evidence. Have you been able to come up with any possible solution for the Tan/Brown holster that I traded you seems to have been an awful lot of work to color it like that. Thanks

Bob

 

[keoki7]

I stand by my earlier statements. It is a P08 holster finished off as a P38 holster. I owned that holster, bought it in Springdale Arkansas.

 

[lugerholsterrepair]

So now we have Robert Tracey and George Anderson who believe these to be original configurations. I have always considered myself to be a student not an expert. These are two very knowledgable holster officianados and I respect both of them and their expertise. Anyone else have any experience with this? Anyone else have any holster examples? Jerry Burney

 

[George]

Dear Jerry Burney:

Very well put! I am The Grasshopper, an so standing down! I will keep an eye out for such a holster at future Gun Shows and possibly own one for my collection!

Regards,

George

 

[garfield]

Had I but known that keokiGeo was the previous owner of this "transitional" I would have never doubted it's authenticity. Seriously, given Geo's first hand knowledge of this holster, I accept that the top of the mag pouch was shortened at the factory sufficiently to accept a P38 mag. The difference between the P08 and P38 mag is not that significant, the latter being longer front to back and shorter top to bottom. I reckon that P08 mag pouches were modified as the holes in the holster and mag pouch appear to be original for the P08 holster. Lopping the top would remedy the one problem and the original mag pouch could easily be enlarged by wet stretching it to fit the larger P38 mag.

A quick fix to solve a logistics problem?

Regarding the size of magazine pouches on P08 holsters; you might wish to compare those on the Imperial holsters v. Third Reich. For what it's worth.

Very interesting!

 

[jcoe]

Here are some pictures of a similar P08/P38 holster marked on back:
P.08 cey /42/WaA920.Took some time (and Jerry’s urging) to dig it out


Download Attachment: Mvc-002f.jpg
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Figure 1.The mag pouch dimensions are much larger than the P08 mag that is in place. There is no indication of stretching etc of an original P08 mag pouch.




Download Attachment: Mvc-004f.jpg
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Figure 2. At top of mag pouch, one can see an indentation from the base of a previously carried P38 mag.



Download Attachment: Mvc-006f.jpg
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Figure 3. Exact fit for a P38 mag, including the angle of top cut.



Download Attachment: Mvc-008f.jpg
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Figure 4. Inside holster one can see P38-like grip panel striations impressed into the leather.

This holster contained a P08 when I bought it from an old luger collector years ago. However it bears evidence of previous P38 use and mag pouch is certainly made for P38-like mag. I recollect a discussion about these P08/P38 holsters years ago, but cannot find reference. During my digging, came across another example of holster conversion: a P38 holster converted to P39(t) by addition of spacer in mag pouch .(page 222 in Whittington, vol 3). Any other examples of these conversions?
John

 

[Jan C Still]

The Rare transitional P.08/P.38 version holster did not sell. The reserve was not met. US $275.00 (Reserve not met)
Jan

 

[blcman]

I can understand the skepticism, but being compared to Bill Clinton really hurt my feelings!

 

[Ron Smith]

Bill, I apologize for the "BS artist" comment. As far as being compared to Bill Clinton, I would'nt stoop that low.

Ron

 

[blcman]

Ron: No problem; my wife would agree with you after living with me for the last 42 years.
Bill

 

[lugerlou]

Gentlemen

Re the holster on Ebay.

In my collection is one Navy marked holster that has the wide magazine pouch for the P38, holster is dated 1939 WaA101 eagle over M.

It is my opinion that the Germans recycled the Po8 holster's to conform to the P38 magazine and pistol rather than do away with excess leather goods.


The leather makers took great pains to pick up the old stitch holes of the P08 pouch as from the inside their is only one set of stiching holes with exception to the ones at the top that are still evident from the Po8 pouch.

So in short my holster is not bogus. I can post photo's if requested but the example will be the same as Jcoe's photo's.