[wdjensen123]

Dear Experts,

There is a trommel magazine that was buried near my Artillery Luger. Can anyone identify the type and date of this trommel? Is it worth anything in its condition, all rusted out? It does match my rusty Luger, so I have a personal interest in it. Thank you for any responses.

Sincerely,
Bill Jensen
[email protected]

Download Attachment: Trommel2.JPG
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[Edward Tinker]

It has a curiosity value is all, as it can never be used as-is.

I do not know the model...

Ed

 

[wdjensen123]

Here is the pictures of the side. I note that one side does not have concentric rings around the center (not the lever side) Could this be the first model?

Download Attachment: Trommel3.JPG
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Download Attachment: Trommel3.JPG
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[wdjensen123]

oops, here's the other picture

Download Attachment: Trommel2a.JPG
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[eroane]

From the position of the folding winding lever it appears to maybe have been in the wound and locked (loading position)when lost.

 

[keoki7]

Looks like what I would call a Type II, Early Version. Probably made late 1917 to 1919.

 

[Guest_V]

No Bill, it´s the second type. If you referred to Bender´s "Luger Holsters & Accessories" p. 270, the texts are muddled. And Ed is right. The lever is in the "loaded" position. You should be able to tell whether there are rounds in the drum by its weight. The lower central screw that holds the thing together looks as if you might be able to dismantle the drum - and maybe even salvage the spring. That might be worth something. I dot know why there are no rings on the lower side.

Patrick

 

[keoki7]

Patrick, lack of reenforcing rings on the front of the Type II tells me that it is an early variation of the second type. It may have been a matter of using up working inventories.

Bill, can you make out any maker marks? They would appear as either a pentagon with circles in it or a "B" over "N".

 

[wdjensen123]

Dear experts,

Thank you for all your input on the trommel magazine. I am an information sponge. I don't have it yet, so I don't know if it has any marks left.

I would be curious to see a picture of a type I snail since I can't find one on the net.

This one was found with an artillery luger buried for 80+ years in chalk in the Saint Pierre Vaast Woods near Rancourt and Bouchavesnes. The Germans apparently abandonned their positions and trenches in Mar 1917 so I wonder how this type II got there if they were first issued late 1917? The Germans retreated to the Hindenburg line to the East.

Thanks again.

Sincerely,
Bill Jensen

 

[wdjensen123]

Here is a picture of the area where it was found, with some trenches marked in black heavy lines

Download Attachment: Map Vaast.jpg
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[wdjensen123]

Here is a picture of Type I Bing Trommel Magazine Snail:

http://k98.org/magazine.htm

Main difference is a telescoping winding arm versus a folding arm.

 

[LU1900]

I can send you some pics only about the bing manufacture
The first model:

Download Attachment: Trom BN 1°type 24779 téles.back.jpg
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The 2° model:

Download Attachment: Trom BN 2°type 63808 téles back.jpg
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The 3° model


Download Attachment: Trom BN 3°type 186032 back.jpg
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The tops of those three models haven't any reenforcing rings ,only the last one have two rings and the bottom is the same than 3°model:

Download Attachment: Trom BN 4°type 299075 back.JPG
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Download Attachment: Trom BN 4°type 299075 top.JPG
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I never see the trommel describe in the german book :"Unleitung zur langen Pistole 08" printed Berlin 1917 tafel II page23

Hope some interest for you and Merry Christmas

 

[eroane]

I think the TM-08 are a very interesting topic! If everyone would post photos or type, manufacture, and serial number, possibly a time frame of the changes in construction detail could be determined. Here is a Type 2 Mfg. by Bing S.N. 125457 and Crowm S accepted.

Download Attachment: Hpim0467.JPG
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Download Attachment: Hpim0468.JPG
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I would like to take a moment to Thank All of You and wish you all a Most Merry Christmas and Prosperous New Year.

 

[wdjensen123]

Thank you all for your continued information and cordial responses.

Here is a picture of the INSIDE of the Trommel. There is a 1917 manual on the Trommel Magazine that is clickable for a few of the pictures. Very interesting. http://www.landofborchardt.com/LP08-article.html I'd love to get a copy of this manual or electronic form of it !

I learned that my relic Trommel pictured first was found inserted into my relic luger, at the Mar 14, 1917 evacuation zone on the map. The Luger has no discernable date remaining, but has a relieved sear making it 1916 at the earliest according to my research.

I am unable to find any more info on the unusual trommel lacking two reinforcing rings on the front, but just a 1" 'washer' in the center. It is likely that type II goes back to Mar 1917 then, since that was when it was abandonned. The trommel was sent from France yesterday, and I read that maybe it might be loaded since the arm is locked ! How dangerous are the rounds? What a "secret weapon" they produced.

I am amazed that the lighter spring can make it through the elbow bend, and the bullets are not jammed there since the angulation seems awkward. Also I wonder why it was designed so that the snail curves left, interfering with a right handed user?

Download Attachment: TM08Internals.JPG
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[Guest_V]

Download Attachment: Mail.JPG
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You´re in luck! the original 1917 "Anleitung zur langen Pistole 08 mit ansteckbarem Trommelmagazin" is still in print and can be obtained from DWJ.

Patrick

 

[wdjensen123]

Hi Patrick,

I just sent an email to [email protected] to order the book you mentioned. I hope I got the right place!

Thank you for the lead.

 

[LU1900]

Hello "eroane" , about your suggestion
Only about the BING manufacture:
--------For me your trommel is a 3°model

I know two 1°model N°8412 and 24779 :just the same describe in the "Anleitung zur langen Pistole 08 mit ansteckbarem Trommelmagazin" but have one renforcing ring on bottom with the telescoping winding and two littles screws on bottom.

The second model is describe by a forum-member N°63808 different bottom with one screw and bolt but telescoping winding .

The third model same than precedent but folding winding I know N°135435,161747,186032,198765 and 199078

1°,2° and 3° model don't have reenforcing ring on top

The last model as the folding winding and the two reenforcing rings on top.I know N°225740,255740,299075,333539,420603,499683,726571

About AEG manufacture , all I see are same model those I know N°963,1094,48239,57123,65832.

I have the pics from all the trommels I describe if some interest about them

But anyone have ever see the trommel describe in the "Anleitung zur langen Pistole 08 mit ansteckbarem Trommelmagazin" this trommel don't have any renforcing ring top or bottom ?

 

[Guest_V]

Bill, the Anleitung isn´t what you´d call a book, just a short booklet. A munitions disposal expert at my club tells me that old ammo is often temperamental - and quite dangerous. You´re right about the reliability of the TM. The spring gets around the corner, but the follower tends to stick. Both my TMs have this problem and I´ve not been able to get them to work reliably. The whole LP/TM rig was just one short step away from a machine pistol. GL was working on a semi/full auto toggle action rifle at the time of his death.

Patrick

 

[eroane]

quote:Originally posted by LU1900

Hello "eroane" , about your suggestion
Only about the BING manufacture:
--------For me your trommel is a 3°model

I know two 1°model N°8412 and 24779 :just the same describe in the "Anleitung zur langen Pistole 08 mit ansteckbarem Trommelmagazin" but have one renforcing ring on bottom with the telescoping winding and two littles screws on bottom.

The second model is describe by a forum-member N°63808 different bottom with one screw and bolt but telescoping winding .

The third model same than precedent but folding winding I know N°135435,161747,186032,198765 and 199078

1°,2° and 3° model don't have reenforcing ring on top

The last model as the folding winding and the two reenforcing rings on top.I know N°225740,255740,299075,333539,420603,499683,726571

About AEG manufacture , all I see are same model those I know N°963,1094,48239,57123,65832.

I have the pics from all the trommels I describe if some interest about them

But anyone have ever see the trommel describe in the "Anleitung zur langen Pistole 08 mit ansteckbarem Trommelmagazin" this trommel don't have any renforcing ring top or bottom ?

Hello LU1900
I hope all is well with you and yours.
I must admit my terminology in describing the different types of TM-08 is probably not the most correct or up to date. In my part of the country,regardless of manufacturer a drum mag with the telescoping winding lever is refered to as a type1(or early model) and the folding winding lever as a type 2(or late model).I think this is because it is one of the most noticeable differences at first glance.I look at these two basic types as having sub-variations as to construction details.This is just my way of looking at things and may have no merit at all.
I am still amazed, buy just a click of a button we can correspond with others all over the world.
Thanks again

 

[LU1900]

Yes "eroane" I agree with you ,this terminologie is the more frequent employed by all.
Just funny that a AEG number 70.000 is early model and manufactured after a Bing number 12.000 from late model.
In fact same in France first type is telescopic AEG or Bing so confusion , and second type is folding so all Bing manufacture