The second one certainly has a replacement side plate. It's either a restamp or, more likely, someone replaced a mismatched plate with one from a non-Navy pistol that was the right number. No Navy P.04 was made with a sideplate marked on the side like a P.08.Hi all, this is my first post here. I am incredibly impressed the knowledge of this community and I have learned a lot already over a single day of browsing. I have done a decent amount of research concerning the 1906 Navy luger but I am clearly far from a master. I have recently come across two examples of the 1906 Navy that present themselves as naval 1st issue altered. Both of the handguns have the correct type III frame and markings in the correct locations, but some of their features are confusing me.
- one example has a mismatched, non-suffixed barrel marked SN:583 with GERMANY export stamping over blue. Crown M proof on barrel right below the letter Y on the export mark. The C/M proofs on left side of the barrel are surprisingly deep and crisp. The finish is quite good, even at the backstrap (possibly refinished post war??) The bottom portion of the safety has some rough milling marks that suggest it may be a 1st issue altered. The frame is numbered SN:383 and all exterior numbered parts are marked 83. I forgot to take a picture with the safety down to examine the text font. I will hopefully get more pictures later from the seller with the unexposed markings and safety. I am treating this model as a mismatched shooter grade.
- This example has a 4 digit, non-suffixed SN: 1647. This example shows nice honest high-spot wear as a salty dog would be expected to. I did not find any export markings and safety is the "down safe" configuration. I am much more interested in acquiring this piece, but I am concerned over one mysterious detail. The side plate is correctly numbered 47, but the marking is on the face of the part instead of the bottom. I know the rule is "if you have to make an excuse for the marking, pass" but the wear on the side plate seems quite comparable to the other high spots. Really hoping its not a restamped part from another gun.
Please let me know if any of you Navy aficionados spot anything else incorrect or suspicious on these guns. I and another buddy of mine are quite interested, but we are well aware that German stuff is often faked, Rare stuff is often faked. Rare German stuff...
Will add more pictures of hidden serials to the links as soon as I get them.
Thanks,
Alex
Two Problematic 1906 Navy Lugers.
Hi all, this is my first post here. I am incredibly impressed the knowledge of this community and I have learned a lot already over a single day of browsing. I have done a decent amount of research concerning the 1906 Navy luger but I am clearly far from a master. I have recently come across two examples of the 1906 Navy that present themselves as naval 1st issue altered. Both of the handguns have the correct type III frame and markings in the correct locations, but some of their features are confusing me.
- one example has a mismatched, non-suffixed barrel marked SN:583 with GERMANY export stamping over blue. Crown M proof on barrel right below the letter Y on the export mark. The C/M proofs on left side of the barrel are surprisingly deep and crisp. The finish is quite good, even at the backstrap (possibly refinished post war??) The bottom portion of the safety has some rough milling marks that suggest it may be a 1st issue altered. The frame is numbered SN:383 and all exterior numbered parts are marked 83. I forgot to take a picture with the safety down to examine the text font. I will hopefully get more pictures later from the seller with the unexposed markings and safety. I am treating this model as a mismatched shooter grade.
- This example has a 4 digit, non-suffixed SN: 1647. This example shows nice honest high-spot wear as a salty dog would be expected to. I did not find any export markings and safety is the "down safe" configuration. I am much more interested in acquiring this piece, but I am concerned over one mysterious detail. The side plate is correctly numbered 47, but the marking is on the face of the part instead of the bottom. I know the rule is "if you have to make an excuse for the marking, pass" but the wear on the side plate seems quite comparable to the other high spots. Really hoping its not a restamped part from another gun.
Please let me know if any of you Navy aficionados spot anything else incorrect or suspicious on these guns. I and another buddy of mine are quite interested, but we are well aware that German stuff is often faked, Rare stuff is often faked. Rare German stuff...
Will add more pictures of hidden serials to the links as soon as I get them.
Thanks,
Alex
- one example has a mismatched, non-suffixed barrel marked SN:583 with GERMANY export stamping over blue. Crown M proof on barrel right below the letter Y on the export mark. The C/M proofs on left side of the barrel are surprisingly deep and crisp. The finish is quite good, even at the backstrap (possibly refinished post war??) The bottom portion of the safety has some rough milling marks that suggest it may be a 1st issue altered. The frame is numbered SN:383 and all exterior numbered parts are marked 83. I forgot to take a picture with the safety down to examine the text font. I will hopefully get more pictures later from the seller with the unexposed markings and safety. I am treating this model as a mismatched shooter grade.
- This example has a 4 digit, non-suffixed SN: 1647. This example shows nice honest high-spot wear as a salty dog would be expected to. I did not find any export markings and safety is the "down safe" configuration. I am much more interested in acquiring this piece, but I am concerned over one mysterious detail. The side plate is correctly numbered 47, but the marking is on the face of the part instead of the bottom. I know the rule is "if you have to make an excuse for the marking, pass" but the wear on the side plate seems quite comparable to the other high spots. Really hoping its not a restamped part from another gun.
Please let me know if any of you Navy aficionados spot anything else incorrect or suspicious on these guns. I and another buddy of mine are quite interested, but we are well aware that German stuff is often faked, Rare stuff is often faked. Rare German stuff...
Will add more pictures of hidden serials to the links as soon as I get them.
Thanks,
Alex
1 - 7 of 7 Posts
The second one certainly has a replacement side plate. It's either a restamp or, more likely, someone replaced a mismatched plate with one from a non-Navy pistol that was the right number. No Navy P.04 was made with a sideplate marked on the side like a P.08.
The first one has very ugly export stamp on replaced barrel, which is unusually ugly and detracting (in my opinion).
I agree with Mike on the second one - the side-late didn't fit well and it's scraped the upper from a poor fit.
Odd to have such heavy wear and little on the barrel end or the grip strap bottom area.
I would treat both as touched-up, but I can see why you are interested, too!
Don't over-pay for either of them.
I agree with Mike on the second one - the side-late didn't fit well and it's scraped the upper from a poor fit.
Odd to have such heavy wear and little on the barrel end or the grip strap bottom area.
I would treat both as touched-up, but I can see why you are interested, too!
Don't over-pay for either of them.
Hi Alex,
Welcome to the forum!
I keep a registry of all known Imperial Navy Lugers world-wide, and 1906 Navy #583 (or #383) is unknown so far. I am eager to see photographs.
1906 Navy #1647 is a known gun. It was last listed on Gunbroker in Aug 2016 and prior to that it was listed by Heritage Auctions in Dec 2015. It was described as having a replacement side-plate.
If you would like a link to the current Navy List send me a PM (private message) with your email address.
Regards, Norm
Welcome to the forum!
I keep a registry of all known Imperial Navy Lugers world-wide, and 1906 Navy #583 (or #383) is unknown so far. I am eager to see photographs.
1906 Navy #1647 is a known gun. It was last listed on Gunbroker in Aug 2016 and prior to that it was listed by Heritage Auctions in Dec 2015. It was described as having a replacement side-plate.
If you would like a link to the current Navy List send me a PM (private message) with your email address.
Regards, Norm
Hi Alex,
I didn't realize that you had posted photos, so here goes. 1906 Navy #383 or 583 is actually #583a. The number on the frame is its legal number and the suffix letter is part of the number. 1906 Navy #583a is also a listed gun. My notations are: "Fitted with 1917 receiver and replacement "GERMANY" marked barrel #383". It was listed on Gunbroker in May 2011.
Norm
I didn't realize that you had posted photos, so here goes. 1906 Navy #383 or 583 is actually #583a. The number on the frame is its legal number and the suffix letter is part of the number. 1906 Navy #583a is also a listed gun. My notations are: "Fitted with 1917 receiver and replacement "GERMANY" marked barrel #383". It was listed on Gunbroker in May 2011.
Norm
Do these guns fit among the range of the 1st issue? I have yet to find a good public resource (I’m very excited to see your list!) online for that. Also, did you notice anything else problematic with the SN:1647 example besides the incorrect side plate?Hi Alex,
I didn't realize that you had posted photos, so here goes. 1906 Navy #383 or 583 is actually #583a. The number on the frame is its legal number and the suffix letter is part of the number. 1906 Navy #583a is also a listed gun. My notations are: "Fitted with 1917 receiver and replacement "GERMANY" marked barrel #383". It was listed on Gunbroker in May 2011.
Norm
I very much appreciate you and Mike’s opinion on these pistols. Sad to see they were both altered (besides the safety haha)The first one has very ugly export stamp on replaced barrel, which is unusually ugly and detracting (in my opinion).
I agree with Mike on the second one - the side-late didn't fit well and it's scraped the upper from a poor fit.
Odd to have such heavy wear and little on the barrel end or the grip strap bottom area.
I would treat both as touched-up, but I can see why you are interested, too!
Don't over-pay for either of them.
1 - 7 of 7 Posts
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